Jacob Hebert

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

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SPEAKER_01 0:53

Remember, DEET is dead, hey ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to our next episode of the Flywheel Connection Podcast. Super happy about this episode, super stoked. We have a special guest, uh Jacob Baber. Uh Jacob Baber is an interesting guy from here to Louisiana and uh does a lot of banding work and just you know a local of Louisiana that knows a lot about this area and the ins and out of what happens here with uh with ducks working on refugees doing banding and uh GPS tracking. But hey Jacob, how you doing today? I'm doing good, Joe. How are you? Man, I'm doing good. Just uh like we were talking offline, man. Just counting the days for duck season. TLC's right around the corner, it'll be here sooner than we think, and um just kind of starting to get ready, slowly getting back uh our mindset back. I know you're getting ready for this upcoming season as well.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Yeah, my off season is a little bit different for me this year, you know, with upcoming uh I guess upcoming events and and and and adventures.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Yeah, yeah, man. So usually I really kick my season off with um I I'll do a little bit of me and uh my oldest boy will do a little bit of competition calling, and we're actually gonna be in uh Lake Arthur at the Civic Center at the um at the Louisiana calling contest with uh Mr. Bill Daniels puts on.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Awesome. I'm trying, I'm gonna try to make it out.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

I'm definitely gonna yeah, man. I like those calling contests. I go there to donate money to people. I usually I usually get whooped up pretty good. Uh but it keeps me sharp with my calling, keeps me um you know practicing, and it it's a good time to see everybody that you only see a few times through that throughout the season. Okay, kind of it's almost like my I call it my duck hunting reunion, yearly reunions.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

That's what I was gonna say. Yeah, it's a little reunion.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Yeah, it is. But um, man, so before we get into all the the um the business part of this, man, how was your duck season last you know, last season? And um, you know, kind of talk about your little your your waterfowl hunting background.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

So last season was that's last season I hunted by myself more than normal. You know, I didn't uh I recently had some health issues in my lower back, give me a lot of problems, so I can't really traverse the public land like I used to or as much as I want. So I kind of stayed around my place, my place off the mermitho. And I hunted my blind a lot during the week. I worked uh at the time I was working in Pennsylvania, so I uh it was on my days all very limited. It was it was hit or miss. You know, there was there weren't there weren't as many ducks kind of like there that I've seen in the past. You know, I think we all experienced that. So it was it's it's duck season, you know, it's better than any other time of year. It's the best time. So I still call it a good season, no matter what.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Yeah, this season, I w man, I've lived in Louisiana for 10 years now. Um, I tell everyone this season wasn't my worst season, wasn't my best season. Uh kind of a little below average on the duck harvest, but my speckle belly and snow geese was uh above average this year. So, you know. Um, but I I targeted speckle belly and uh geese more than I did ducks this season.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Yeah. Me not so much. Uh I'm not as good on like all I'm not as consistent, but I'm working on that. I'm gonna make it a lot better.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Yeah. Um yeah, you just something about speckle belly that I really I really enjoy. They um uh I call them the mallards of the geese world, the way they work and all that. They're smart. Yeah, they are smart. They're smart and I mean there's something, but when you when you get when you get even like a three or four pack of specs to do it right, it man, to me, it there's that is a favorite my favorite bird to watch finish, is a is a speckle belly.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

I have mixed emotions being a terrible caller. Uh I I get them close, but I can't finish them.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

We'll see what happens this year though. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

So I mean, did you grow up hunting here in Louisiana? Uh, how did you get into the waterfowl?

SPEAKER_02 5:48

Man, I I grew up in uh a small small rural area, what do you call it? A town, like Goto, Louisiana, which is just outside of New Iberi. I grew up in the area of Vermillion Parish, Iberia Parish, kind of laughing at Parish meat. Yeah. And uh I grew up wood duck. I grew up in the back of the woods, just you know, I wouldn't say shooting roosts, but you know, I was uh a flyby shooter. Yeah. I hadn't be cool. I didn't eat cool with my first ducks, I'd say, till man. I might have been 22. Yeah. You know, it was long after I installed it and shot my first bird.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Yeah. It seems like a lot of guys, especially here in the south, you know, me living in North Carolina, Georgia, and then down here in Louisiana. It seems like a lot of guys start cutting their teeth on is the wood ducks.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Yeah, that was. Back when I was growing up, that was the most abundant duck of the of the summertime, you know? Yeah.

unknown 6:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

That was just the most abundant duck, period.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Yeah, I tell everyone, I I enjoy shooting the wood ducks. I still actually target wood ducks a lot. Um, during, you know, if I don't have time, I you know, I'm fortunate I have some lakes over here in Louisiana, Louisiana that I live in. That allows me, you know, that we have the wood duck is pretty abundant. And I think they're one of the best table fares. I mean, I tell everyone, if I can only shoot two birds, uh, it would be a speckle belly and a wood duck, just for for table fair purposes.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

They're both great.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Both great. Let me rephrase that.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

They were more abundant in my area of the of the parish, you know, county.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Yeah. So where you grew up, would is it all that Cypress backwater slugs, or or do you guys have big open marshes? Or did you grow up?

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Yeah, there's a famous lake be here. I think it was 86, or maybe later, 96, I don't remember when. I believe it was 86 whenever they drilled into that salt dome and that ridge went in. But I grew up about two and a half miles west, west of it.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Yeah. And uh like here in here in uh the southwest, uh, do you guys have a lot of rice agriculture like like we do down here?

SPEAKER_02 8:22

Yeah, growing up, yes. I you know, I can remember rice fields all the way almost to New Iberia, all 14, both sides. Now it's all cane. Yeah. The sugar industry's really taking over. Like and it's pushing all the way to right now.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Yeah. That's what I've heard. I've heard a lot, you know, a lot of guys talk about that. I've had, you know, Damon Abair, I've had um uh I've had uh Ron Cortez on a few, you know, a bunch of times, and you know, and we've talked about um the rice industry down here. I gotta tell you guys, it's still, I mean, Louisiana's still top three for rice, you know, production here, you know, within the US.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Yeah, no doubt. I mean, I think that has a lot to do with technology. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

But when it comes to all that, so you know, you got in the honey, what made you get into the um the actual conservation side of everything? And and and how did you link up, you know, doing the banding and uh GPS tracking?

SPEAKER_02 9:29

Man, uh I ended up killing a few bands over the years for all length. And I I guess I bands were so common all and I said, Man, I want to know who this guy is. What really did it for me was um it was the last band I shot, it was a mallard. It was at least eight years old, and it was banded about a mile north of where I shot it. You know, back in 2000 and lending like 2016, 1515. I have to look at the certificate. Yeah. But it was uh that that's what did it for me, honestly. I had been hunting in the particular area for about 17 years, and I guess I could say that most people know by now it's pretty public publicized and I hunt like I mean, I've hunted it in the past 15 years. There's no secret about it. And once I did that, I I kept poking, I said, I want to know who all again is, so I emailed him talking to him and uh picked his brain. You know, he's a I had heard all sorts of things about him, and I didn't I had never uh never met him before. And uh you know, one thing led to another. I I kept picking out his brain and I said, Well, he goes, Hey man, you need some volunteers, I'll come help you. You know, just let me know when you go band it. And it's all linked. I mean, he probably if I had to guess he bans more drugs than anybody in the world, yeah, or close to it. He's in the top three, I know that. Well, you know, we have to hear that all over the place. Yeah. Oh yeah. He don't stop. Well, I ended up meeting up with him at Rockefeller one day, it was before he had his technicians that helped him out, you know, help him sit next bait and do all the groundwork that he can't do, you know. Yeah. Well, so I drove to Rockefeller one morning, we helped him set a bait side. It was a Friday morning, and we had to shoot the next the next morning. It was Friday yeah, it was Friday around noon, I went beating, and then we had to shoot the next morning. Well, so I helped him bait the rice, set the net, and everything and uh went shot a net the next day, and that's how it started.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

Yeah. And you you said that was around what 2016-17 when you uh you started, you linked up with him.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

Oh no, no, no. Um that's how old that mallard was. Oh, it was banned. Um this was I've been working with Paul for about two, two and a half years now. Okay. Yeah. April of 24 or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Oh, nice. So yeah, you you know, you have a couple years, you know, hanging out with Paul. Now I've heard nothing but good things about Paul. Uh, everyone I talked to is always said just how knowledgeable he is and just you know, just how thorough he is on his his just his banding projects and his research.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Oh, he's a wizard. Yeah. I tell him all the time, I said, You're doing the Lord's work. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Man, I I yeah. What really sucks is is our I'm you know, we have a mutual friend, uh Damon. He's been on the show a couple times. I always want to go link down with you guys to go help out and kind of just hang out. But it seems like always during like the banding time of the year, it's always like my busiest time at work.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

Yeah. Well, he'll band all throughout the season.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

Pretty much, other than you know, this time of year.

unknown 13:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

And then he's probably still, I'm sure, he's a festival tough.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yeah. When it comes, you know, when you start banding, um, and yeah, I know you're setting the nets up and all that. What what typically are the um the major species that you you guys are seeing in um getting in those traps and uh that you guys are actually banding?

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Well, that depends on where we're at, but you know, he mainly bans out of Rockefeller. That's where most of the volunteers, you know, turn up and give him give him a hand. Not necessarily setting nets and all that, but they come and they help catch the ducks, get the nets, get the ducks out of the net while they're overwater because otherwise they'll ground. Yeah. Well, it'll be probably teal, you know, mostly teal, ponies, cattle, uh lots of bent ale, occasional mild bugs, a common species around, you know, what's that marsh around Rockefeller, north around Brazil, you know, north Miami.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

So not very many mallards?

SPEAKER_02 14:26

Not in that area. No, I don't think we maybe I think we caught maybe one catch a cinnamon this past season. Really? Yeah. And the first year that I worked with him, uh uh we caught a well, we didn't catch it, it was in he showed me pictures of it. I thought I was in the truck, made it back to helping man. And he showed me pictures of this lucastic field that he had on the big side. But as soon as he pushed the button, a lot of you know, I guess 60, and he could tell you better, 60-70% of them birds that get out of that, you know, that that perimeter where the net can catch them, so it got out.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Yeah. So those nets are are the are they using like pressurized air, like CO2 to to push out?

SPEAKER_02 15:10

No, that's it's all uh gunpowder. Oh yeah, gotta have your explosive license to work with it.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Yeah. Oh, and I I I did not know that. I thought they were all uh I thought it was like a CO2 or protein cartridge that pushed them out.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

No, no, maybe in some areas, no, he doesn't that. Oh, you know when he shoots that thing. Yeah, is it is it pretty loud? It's pretty loud, it's exhilarating too.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

Yeah, I mean you know what you're about to get into.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

I bet it's a pretty pretty cool sight just to see all those birds dissolidated just on that bait pile before you shoot it.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

It's it's definitely a sight to see.

SPEAKER_03 15:50

I think everybody should do it, and I think that's what you know it takes people getting out there shooting bands in order for them to really want to get into it.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

And you know, for some they don't get into it right away, they'll shoot. Like I know people that uh shot 10 bands and never actually went. So I can't really say that, I guess, but it's I guess a situation, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Yeah, I I see some people get the band bug, and I'm not super like I only have three bands, and they're all geese. I have uh two snow geese and um a honker I shot up in in Nebraska. I've never shot a banded duck.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

Um but I think it's more location, yeah. It's more location, but obviously, but it's location.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Yeah, the bands I've got the bands as a trophy don't really get me going. I mean they're cool, they're you know, they're good hunts to remember, but I I think it's super just super cool and super unique when you watch where these bands, you know, when you call up or you you put on the email and you go online and and they email you all everything and you get that certificate. It's I think it's so neat to where you've seen these birds go, uh and where they're banded, how many times they've done the you know, they've done the gauntlet from the north to south. Yeah, I I think that to me, that part of the banding, just the data part, really gets me um kind of nerding out on that quite a bit.

SPEAKER_03 17:15

Dang, that's just how how does this creature with the peace size brain operate like it does?

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Oh, yeah. This I mean, I tell everyone, we need map quests or we need our our our phones to get us, you know, from one part of the state to the other, or sometimes you can navigate in the the town you live in, and these birds, the peace size brain, can go from the boreal forest all the way down here to the Shaeneers, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Yeah, sometimes they'll skip a year and come back.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Yeah, yeah, they'll they'll end up going somewhere else. I that's why I think it like the GPS part is so cool. Because you know, you see, um when you guys are doing these banning operations, how usually what's the ratio of just birds that get banned or the or what birds get GPS's, or what's the criterion for that?

SPEAKER_02 18:04

So uh it's whatever uh I guess Paul calls for. He you know, he we only put transmitters on or collars on yeast, mallards, so far for me at least.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

You know, the critical species that are in trouble for Louisiana. Not saying in trouble with the species that they don't know much about, like Mallard. Yeah. And not to say that they don't know much about that they don't know exactly what's going on with that species at the time, like right now. Yeah. And and the the ratio, like I said, we banded 75 mallards on one shoot this past season, and put out like five transmitters, 15 total. Yeah, but we were only putting them on hand. Yeah, we're only putting transmitters on him. Well, because the the sex ratios are so skewed. It could be one in 15, you know? Yeah. Man, it yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

And you see uh you bring up the mallard, yeah. Like I said, I wasn't born or raised here, like I said, I've only lived here for the last past decade. Um, you know, I grew up in California, joined the military, moved all over the US, got to hunt all the flyaways, hunt a bunch of different states, you know, and I got to cut my teeth in the Sack Valley where uh pintail, widge and mallard are all pretty, you know, pretty prevalent birds. I didn't realize until I got, you know, living in Kansas for a while, living in you know, North Carolina and Georgia, that you know, when I tell people, you know, my first duck at a I killed when I was 12 was a bull pintail. And I thought, you know, for us that was back in the Sack Valley, that was just kind of that wasn't like a huge ordeal. Like, you know, it's a pintail for feeding for table fair as a bird that we held um high high up there on rank, but you know, I thought everyone shot pintails, you know, as a dumb, dumb teenager moving out of California. So it wasn't until I realized that, oh, the pintail, you know, we kind of had something special there when it came to the pintails. But you know, you growing up here and everything, you know, and I hear everyone, you see it online all the time, of people talk about the mallards, you know. We're you know, I know you say, you know, you gotta try to kind of figure out what's going on with the mallards. Were back when you first started hunting as a as a young man, or when your dad and grandpa started hunting, were the mallards so prevalent back down here in Louisiana, like like some people say?

SPEAKER_02 20:48

Yeah. They always have been it's less and less, you know, as song goes on. It's really bad now. Yeah. I think 2016, 17, and then I guess around 18 was where the trends started going downhill for for me and in the area that I hunt.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Yeah, and I know, and then this is you know, kind of what I want to reach out to because I have some buddies or real good buddies that say, you know, this last past season, I have a buddy that you know, our my buddy Roland, Art Road, guy that we know, he hunts up in the north north. He said this was his best season in the last 10 years for Mallards, where he hunts at. And I have some guys that say, you know, this was the worst season they've ever had this past season. For me, um the season that 2024, 25 season was one of the better years I had here in Louisiana for Mallards. And it almost seems like the mallard, from what I see on here, some spots are real scarce, and then I hunt other spots, other areas, and it's not like I'm not killing. You know, limits of mallards like you do I do in Arkansas or in Nebraska, but you know, we'll go, we'll kill four or five, you know, for the blind a day during some huts. But yet have that's a good hunt. Yeah. Have you guys noticed um is there a dis you know from the banding and being a Rockefeller and and you know being a lacassine, is there a distribution difference down here with the mallows, or do you think they just you know just stop coming?

SPEAKER_02 22:33

Oh, they they stopped coming. It's either that or they're you know, they're not recruiting, they're killing the the young the the juveniles, they're killing probably killing the juveniles or some of them you know before they get here. I think it's numerous things. Yeah. Um just from what she's seen. You know, the the abundance of s of knowledge in South Louisiana is southwest Louisiana. Really? Yeah, but you're not gonna you're not gonna shoot many east of Marsh Island. You'll shoot a few, but not like you will in Southwest Louisiana. Why is that, you think? Uh just the marsh. The marsh. The marsh and the rice. Yeah, plenty of abundance of food.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

Yeah. Which is weird because like you know, I kill a few in in the rice to eat, but where I've noticed where I've killed the majority of my mallards here in Louisiana, has been either on on like on lakes, like you know, a couple times you have some buddies that have leases on Miller Lake or the part of the Middle Lake Club. I'll kill a few there. Usually almost every hunt will kill, you know, two, three mallards per line. Uh, I've killed a few out here at the lake by my house. Um I've killed some of Catahula. And then like I said, we I've killed some, you know, some in the um in the rice. I've never killed them in the marsh out here. I've seen them, but you know, I've never had the opportunity to kill them in the marsh. But um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

They like to hang around that that the Southwest Complex refuge system, and I think mainly lacosene because of the invertebrates. Really? Yeah. And then it's so close to the rice belt, you know, you're all you gotta do is lie at that marsh and you there's a buffet way. But then you know that's not so much anymore.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Yeah, yeah. I'd say I had a I had a I had a lease in by but in between Elton and Kinder, north of 10, uh two years ago. Um and yeah, you know, I killed some mallards there that year. Uh, I actually didn't print decent that that season on the mallards up in the north of 10. But I would notice that, you know, people talking about them going nocturnal all the time. I would get to my blonde in the morning and sit down. You'd hear them in the middle of the field, you know, you know, just go they're you know, just content, feeding a little bit, you know, 30, 45 minutes before shoot light. And then about 20, 15 minutes before shoot light, I'd watch them get up, get high, and just head straight south for me.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Yeah, I can about imagine where they were going. Yeah. Um, I'm sure you kill everybody if you kill you. But there's definitely not the population that we had at one time. I mean, like, I think it's so close to 50,000 back in the 87. Yeah. So when you see 2,000 miles on the on the count, that's probably where they're gonna be. Probably shouldn't have said that. Yeah, but everybody knows now. It ain't no secret. It used to be South Louisiana's best kept secret. Yeah, it's just a handful of us that would say more.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Man, I told everyone when I first moved down here, I didn't have a lease until 2022 is the first lease I got. I spent my almost my first you know, six, six, seven years hunting, hunting lacassine. Um, you know, we like I said, we killed, you know, diver ducks, we kill uh killed a lot of ringnecks, some bluebills, teal, godwall, spoonies, some pintails. Um and it, you know, for uh for public, you know, you you k you'd kill a few um never killed snows, but we we killed some specs out there as well. And um, yeah, it you know, uh I think it was about 20, it was right after COVID and everything where I ended up, you know, the Marsh complex had some issues, and I ended up getting the lease just you know out of necessity.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

Yeah, yeah. And it was uh definitely not what it used to be. Just two years ago. You know, you could go out three years ago and find you a half decent whole hunk of wind and and and kill a limit of ducks, not last year.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Yeah. So that's again my next question. So you see all these debates on the internet and you see that. Um, and man, I I I I've seen it, heard it all, I've got roped into some of them. Uh, but what do you think it is from your standpoint of seeing the banning? Is it the loss of habitat? Is it better habitat outside the state? Or you know, or you know, could it be, you know, is it the shortstopping that people are talking about? Or is it is it uh you know, death by a thousand cuts?

SPEAKER_02 27:56

The above. The above. Yeah, all of the above. I think it uh I think it mainly has to do with habitat just throughout the flyaways, period, mainly in the prairie pothole region. The more that you do, if people would do more research, they would see that. And and that's just what it's gonna take.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

You can't you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it a drink, you know. People don't want to listen. So they all want to blame one thing.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

And while that may be part of the problem, it's not the main reason, it's not something we should be focused on. And like Paul said, you know, in his in that coastal coalition uh seminar, whatever, you know, we don't we don't need to take any more habitat off the landscape, even if it's flooding cool. It doesn't matter what it is, it's it helps those those products. Now, I say that I do want to see a study done on it.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Yeah, I think we all want to see a study done on it.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

I want to know exactly, you know, what are they getting the nutrients that they're supposed to have from it? Are they is it really making them nocturnal? Clearly it is. All those questions that everyone had, you know, the ones that we've heard a thousand times.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

Yeah. Yeah. When it comes to nocturnal stuff, from what I've noticed, I think. Yeah, that's how many. I think the rice will make them turn nocturnal just because they know that they could feed there, it's guaranteed food. And on a, you know, I talk about on a full moon, but my hunting in the rice field sucks because in the morning they've they're already fed all night and they're getting up sky high and they're heading straight south.

SPEAKER_03 29:46

Right. So you can't say I hear that a lot of these big timers from Missouri, guys, or they all say things like, they go nocturnal because of the corn, but it's not because of the corn, it's the it's fun because they do that up and down the fly, whether they eat rice or not, it's where they're getting shot at.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Yeah. I mean they just happen to get shot a lot more down here.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Yeah. That is the you know, that is definitely the truth. And so I like the fact that you you said um you don't want to take stuff off, you know, we shouldn't take more habitat off of the off of the birds. And like I got, you know, for the viewers, I've never hunted flooded corn. Never have. Um, I'm not saying I would, I just haven't had the opportunity to. I've hunted cut corn in Nebraska and have had some really good, uh, really good hunts with cut cornfields up against uh the river and up against some um some farm ponds.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

But I've never cut cornfield is one of the best hunts you'll ever go on.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Yes, yes. Um man, I'll show you a picture later of me and the boys uh 2022. We we shot ourselves our our limit of mallards and a limit of uh hawkers, and we shot uh I think that hunt or six of us. We shot three bands, two banded mallards, and I shot up as I shot my banded hawker. Um just just a phenomenal hunt in the uh cupcorn. But what part of Nebraska? It was um man, I can't pronounce the name. It's called Southeast? No, it was uh Northeast. It was about 45 minutes north of Omaha. Okay, called uh it's some Native American name called Topeka, no, not Topeka, Titanka or Tatinka.

SPEAKER_03 31:36

Don't ask me, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

Um but I I I want to find it interesting because you kind of have the same idea as me on on this, is I don't know, like I said, um, I don't know if the what do you call it, if footer corn is the best habitat or not, or if it's hurting. But I you know I've seen birds use it, and we always everyone sees the birds use it. Um, but I would like to see that study done because before we start taking away habitat, or you know, I I don't want to take away from the birds before we add on to the birds. What's your thought, or you know, I know you hang around with more professionals than I do. What's their thought about flooded corn being considered habitat for birds? I know that's a huge argument saying that it's a it's not good habitat.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

Well, what is I who's well, I guess I can't ask that question, but we don't know that.

SPEAKER_03 32:37

Yeah, we really just don't know that. I think who's saying that it's not good habitat, but they don't know either. Half of these guys haven't hunted any blooded corn.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Yeah, I mean, you see it on the internet, and uh you know on the on the on the on these uh uh these forums and stuff where you know you'll see guys back and they like bent banter back and forth, and some of these guys have tried to get on the podcast and just timing issues. But like I said, for me, I don't know. I I think you know, when the way I look at corn in my mind is um it does add food, it adds geothermal cover. Yeah, uh their vertebrates do you know do get into it.

SPEAKER_03 33:19

Yeah, but I wouldn't say that they're there for that.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

You say they're there for what?

SPEAKER_03 33:24

I wouldn't say that they're in there for that reason.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

For the the uh so what do you think what what attracts those birds to the corn so much? The flood of corn.

SPEAKER_03 33:35

The corn, and then if it freezes, they can they can still get access to it. Probably a little bit easier because they they can kick themselves up, they can trample on top of each other. Yeah, you know, that ice provides a uh basically a floor for them. Yeah, where do you think and then they can still feed to a point to a certain point, you know, it's frozen when that when that dry cut cornfield is frozen and iced over, they can get in that flooded corn and still eat.

SPEAKER_02 34:04

Still eat.

SPEAKER_03 34:05

So it gives them they don't have to leave as long as that river's open, they don't have to leave. I've seen it for myself.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

Yeah, so do you think it's more of just the the the flooded corn for the water aspect of it, or is it the open water river? Like I mean, it for me I'm just trying to wrap my mind around it.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

What do you what do you mean by that? Like why they're there?

SPEAKER_01 34:29

No, I know why they're using the you know, they're using the corn. But that does that corn, when it when it gets when everything else is freezing, do those corn do the corn, does the corn freeze?

SPEAKER_02 34:42

Yeah, but they can still eat it. They still eat it? Yeah, they still eat it. Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Yeah. I know you you do yourself hunt in Missouri quite a bit, right?

SPEAKER_03 34:54

Yeah, next year I'll make like a decade.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

A decade. Have you noticed seeing that you're you've hunted both and all that, do you see the short stopping that some people say I'm I've seen this, I'll say this.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

I've seen the numbers increase up there.

SPEAKER_03 35:15

But the numbers on the paper don't show that. You know, the numbers that they're recording don't show that, but I've seen the numbers increase up there.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

Yeah. And I have noticed that. Uh, me and like you know, like rolling, we we talk almost every day and we talk numbers, right? And I look at the migratory, um the migratory bird harvest activity um reports, and on on the Missouri side of it, uh, you know, it just stays steady. You know, it might fluctuate by a couple thousand every year, you know, some more, some less.

SPEAKER_03 35:47

Supposedly it was down this year, but I don't know how true that is.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

Yeah, you know, you know, it could be due to less hunters or more hunters or or whatnot.

SPEAKER_03 35:56

None of that harvest, that is accurate anyway. And a lot of people, even biologists will tell you that.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

That is not accurate, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:03

That is not accurate when it comes to harvest, there's no way.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

How many can we record? Yeah, uh, I mean, the only way that I've had a biologist, one of the biologists on the wing bee come on, and he kind of told me how that how that worked with, you know, and for me, I I could understand the wing bee when they add that. That's a uh a bird's wing, one mallard wing is one duck, right? Um, and I know some of the other ones are done with the surveys, and you know, I've done my survey in Louisiana, you know, when I when I'm come out the marsh or the refuge, but I mean sometimes you go open up those um open up the the little lockers are in, and you know, there's no pamphlets.

SPEAKER_03 36:48

I mean, I I've had yeah, more times than not.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

Yeah, so I've had I've had three biologists on. I've had two that said that you know that they're pretty accurate.

SPEAKER_03 37:00

I've had one that said, uh, and I'm not gonna, you know, for the viewers when not every duck hunter participates in it.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

Yes, yeah, but you know, you don't you don't see so do you think there's been more killed on on these reports or or less or is that more?

SPEAKER_03 37:16

I think we're we're harvesting more than they think.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Really? And then you think that's all throughout the flow here in Louisiana?

SPEAKER_02 37:24

I would have yes, I would have to, but then again, I'm not a biologist, I'm not a scientist, I'm just yeah, common sense old boy, you know.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Yeah, yeah. And I'm asking you picking your brain just because you know you're around those guys, you know. I'm a I'm not a big dumped drop by my training.

SPEAKER_03 37:42

I'm not gonna quote anybody or any biologist, you know, because they wouldn't want me to, but you know, they would agree.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

Yeah. Yeah. Um now, do you uh and you know, people are talking about about wanting to do you think in your mind, seeing what you see in Missouri and seeing what you see down here in the banning, let's say tomorrow, if flooded corn just got banned, outlawed, you couldn't do it, no one did it, everyone went to to moist soil. Do you think that would change the ducks from staying up there? Or do you or do you think it would it would push them down, or or would it spread them out to the any of the other flowways? You know, just you know your thought.

SPEAKER_03 38:26

Well, it would definitely change. You know, you're taking water and food off the landscape. So it would change their behavior and wherever they wouldn't stay there.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

Yeah. Would they come here? I don't know. Yeah. Hard to say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:42

There's only to find that out. I do think that they probably would in harsh conditions.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

In harsh conditions. What do you see on the GPS? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 38:51

If you look at our previous winters that we've had in more recent years, you'll have you'll be snow-locked in Kansas and Missouri's wide open. Or you go 50 miles west or 50 miles east, and there's the temperature difference is maybe sometimes 20 degrees. Yeah. So you gotta take those things into account, too. Them birds aren't gonna go further than they have to.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:14

If they they they don't just know one or two directions, north and south, you know.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

Yeah, and I think a lot of us as hunters and I'll stereotype. Stereotype. And you know, I was definitely um, man, I was guilty of that because you know, I learned honey, you know, I learned waterfowl from my great-grandfather and my grandfather, my dad, and you know, and that's the way they were taught is birds, you know, birds migrate north-south, they don't deviate. The birds that come, you know, that birds that are coming from Alaska go down to Mexico, you know, they go down to the do the Klamath, the sack valley, and they're not gonna end up in Louisiana. When the birds, you know, and now you know with the GPS tracking, we we we proved that wrong, right? Right. But what if you notice with, I mean, I don't know, do you get to see some of the data from Paul with these do the GPS tracking?

SPEAKER_03 40:05

Yeah, I do. Uh, but I don't publicize it like there's reasons the for publishing. Yeah, because people, you know, these guys that are all about prestige and bragging and they're not in it for the right reason, they'll change out, they'll do anything. Yeah, so you can't put that stuff out to the public for people because people like that ruin a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Yeah, yeah. I I I mean without telling me too much, can't were you shocked when you seen the way the birds travel?

SPEAKER_02 40:39

Yeah, I was surprised. I I was pretty surprised.

SPEAKER_03 40:42

Pretty surprised, you know, like those specks. Those specks will come, they'll leave up there, come all the way down here. One of them ended up in a I think a rock or somewhere around Biloxi. At night, and then waited until daylight came out and she came on over where she, I think in the same field she had come to the previous year. You know, our mallards, it's hard for them. The mallards have such a high, you know, predation rate up there and death rate. So like the mallards that we put um trackers on, a lot of them die.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

They're down to what like um coyotes, uh raptors, and all that.

SPEAKER_03 41:26

Yeah, predation mostly are tractors, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

Yeah, yeah. I've always wondered how many bands never get recovered just because of that. Thousands. Yeah. That's always, you know, every time I see a dead bird in the field, you know, I I always go look and check for a band just you know, just in case. Um I've never I've never found one on a dead bird.

SPEAKER_03 41:52

Yeah, but last year up in Missouri they had a big flu kill.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

Uh huh.

SPEAKER_03 41:56

We're gonna go check them, but we never did. There was probably easily 500 dead geese.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

All snows.

SPEAKER_03 42:03

All snows, all juvies.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

All juvies, yeah. I I noticed that when I first noticed the the the the big outbreak was in Arkansas, I believe it was 2023 season when the big one hit. And um, yeah, I was, I mean, I I told everyone the birds, those those birds. I was in um Jonesboro area, hunting around the cash area with um uh great guy, um, Mr. Charles Petty. He has a guy that serves out there and uh he donates hunts to veterans and uh veteran organizations out down there. Um took some vets out there to go hunt, and they look like they're uh they're like zombie geese. You know, like those uh videos of uh the turkey that kind of walk in the circles, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:54

They're lethargic stuff.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

Yeah, that's the way the those geese were they're either flying in like a real tight circle about 30 feet off the ground, or they're in the decoys just kind of wobbling like they're drunk.

SPEAKER_02 43:06

Oh yeah. Oh, they were they were sipping on whiskey.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:14

But it's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:17

I always, you know, like I said, I you know I've never hunted, I've never hunted Missouri. Kind of I I you know I would love to hunt Missouri and I love to hunt you know outside the state. I hunt a few times a year out of the state, maybe a handful of times, but you know, when for me, when I you know when you start putting money into leases down here, you kind of want to hunt your leases. Yeah. Um, but it it's always you know, like I said, you were kind of a unique guy because you you see both sides of the coin. Um with you know, down here in Louisiana and you know, in Missouri that you know, is it fair in your thought from being a guy that hunts both that Missouri gets a lot of the shade and a lot of the finger pointing that you know that they do get?

SPEAKER_03 44:01

It's not fair because it's they're not the only ones doing it. You know, that's a that's a mid lateral issue. That's that's that's Kansas, that's Illinois, that's Missouri. Now Missouri might be doing it on a faster and and bigger scale than others, or I don't even know that if that's a fact. No one really does. Well, I guarantee you there's somebody that does, and he ain't speaking.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:27

They got some nerds out there like reading maps. I'll I'm one of those nerds, but I'm not I don't have that much time.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

Yeah, I would love to see because I've looked into the flood, and not the flood equipment of cupcorn, just because I've hunted it, and you know, me and my kids were hunting in and we were hunting in a pit and we looked up, and there you know, there's every bit of five, six hundred mallards circling us. And at one point, me and my two boys put our guns down. We're just like, this looks like a DU commercial of all these birds. And I was like, man, cut corn, you know, to me, I'm like, that cut corn is what you know is it.

SPEAKER_03 45:02

Um where it's at, and then so and then you over you're not gonna shoot into 500 mallows over a flooded cornfield.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

But everyone says it makes it seem like that. And you see the videos and stuff, you know, online, which I know doesn't help some of the guys. You see Daybreak, you see Tony, uh Vandomore, and all them that you know they you know, they show their videos of some of their sanctuaries.

SPEAKER_03 45:25

Um sure, they probably have those ducks on the water, but they're they're not all coming into there at one time like that.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

Yeah. Uh yeah, so uh like I've always looked at the cut corn. Like there's way, there has to be way more, especially with ethanol. And ethanol last month got voted where they're gonna make, you know, they wanted to add more the percentage of more ethanol in our gasoline, which is gonna make more farming going up for the field corn, and you know, the um now they're they're the towel. What's going on?

SPEAKER_03 46:00

It's gonna make my gas mileage go down.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

Yeah. And they're there, but you know, now they're tacked, uh, they're doing the towel farming up in um up in the the the uh the the prairie prows. So for my I there I think that there just has to be more there's to be more hard, you know, cut corn, waste grain corn on the ground that there is flooded corn. Um or you know, what have you noticed when being in those areas?

SPEAKER_03 46:32

Uh yeah, that depends on the field, that depends on who harvested it, and it depends on the region and how bad the weather was that year, if it laid some of the corn over, you know, with the if it because that you know that picker can only pick up so far from the ground.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

Yeah, or that that harvester, whatever people want to call it. And uh you know, I I can't really say if there's more on the ground or if there's more on the stalks still over water.

SPEAKER_03 47:04

I don't know. Yeah, I don't really know. But I could say that it's probably neck and neck now because with technology, those things don't leave anything behind. And and I mean you go up north and uh right before harvest, you see these fields and they're pristine. You know, a lot of them don't get in October. So a lot of them just because they cut, you know, the majority of South Dakota and North Dakota now is corn. And I mean, I guarantee you, only probably less than 10% of what's harvested is filled on the ground, or less than maybe 2%. If that I don't, it's gotta be a very low percentage.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

Yeah, yeah. I've read some things on it that I've read some in the corn belt are like 500 or 500 million acres of corn, and then you know, it's usually it grab this. Is all stuff I found on the internet that there's you know, waste grain calculation is one one bushel per acre. And that's like, man, that seems like it's so much of that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 48:06

And um, uh yeah, even if it's eating in a fried field, you understand why it's not, yeah. Because they are on the feeding frenzy and they're eating fat.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

Yeah, yeah. That's one thing I didn't notice when I hunted the cut corn. We hunt it, there was sheet water on the cut corn, maybe about no more than four inches. It barely barely covered your ankle. And then we had the river, and then we had the river in front of us in Missouri, and um man, we just I mean, those birds just kept coming in, and we'd shoot into a volley, and you'd watch them circle out, and they would come right back. I mean, they'd come in at that corn.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

I'm sorry for that. Go ahead. Oh no, you cut out real quick.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

How cold was it? So it wasn't very cold. That was so we it snowed before. So I went up there, it was Christmas. On that hunt, I remember the last thing we hunted was the 22nd of December of 2022. Uh that was a cold winter. Yeah, but on Christmas Eve, when we got out of church on Christmas Eve, uh, me and the family, because my wife, my wife's originally from Nebraska, so that's why I traveled up to so much of my in-laws who are still up there. We went to the DeSoto um refuge in um Iowa, which is just right next door from Omaha. It was 55 degrees on Christmas Eve.

SPEAKER_02 49:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

And I mean, you know, I mean, we we filmed and took pictures. There was a pretty cool video we have of a coyote chasing a goose, a snow goose. And there was just, I mean, it was 55 degrees, and there was tons of open water. You could see there was a little bit of melting snow on the ground, but there was just I mean, and it was pretty, you know. The the the DeSoto um refuge is a pretty cool refuge complex. Um, you can't hunt it, there's no hunting on there at all. I think the only thing you're allowed to do there is uh you can hike it and you go go bird watch. I think the only thing you're allowed to do is fish, you know, fish some of the lakes on there. Um so the bird the more on bird watch. Yeah. And you know, it was it was super neat. We got a lot of good videos of um of uh birds, you know, birds come in, ducks and geese and swans, and pretty well, pretty, pretty neat. Uh, definitely a great place if you wanna want to just listen to birds in the wild to help your calling out.

SPEAKER_03 50:44

Right, right. I think a lot of a lot of people probably should do that.

SPEAKER_01 50:48

Yeah. So you know, it was pretty, but you know, that got me thinking. I was like, man, dude, 50 oh 55 degrees in December in Nebraska. I was like, and they can say that was that one, that was probably one of my worst years here in Louisiana was that season. Uh, and it really wasn't due. I don't I know guys that were two two, three fields over from me or a mile away from me. And um they were doing good. They were doing good. I mean, we have we both know a guy named Um the owner uh Glarden, owner of Spoonbills. Uh his his famous bus blind was literally straight mile or straight distance one mile to the west of me. And he well, I mean, anyone who goes on his website or his Facebook to see that he is he stacks Bird's note and and and that but I mean that bus is you know that bus line for him is a famous blind. And uh yeah, I mean it's this this it's the centerpiece of his his guide service. And I killed, you know, it was embarrassing the number I killed there that that season. Um, and it like I said, it wasn't for me, it was kind of hey, it is what it is. Um you know, I might have got to move somewhere else, and you know, that's what I did.

SPEAKER_03 52:03

But that line might have been okay the following year.

SPEAKER_01 52:06

Yeah, I I actually knew I know the guy that had it last year, and they killed a few. Uh the last two seasons, I know the same guy that had it, and uh, he's killed a few on it. Um, you know, decent amount, a lot better than what I did that season on it. And but you know, I'm definitely in in a better spot in Louisiana now, and uh pretty happy with the farmer and the guy that I lease from. So I'm sticking around there, you know, as as long as I can, yeah, as long as they allow me. Um but from when you've seen in Missouri and when you've seen down here in Louisiana, do you think, you know, we know bird numbers are down, and like I was talking to some guys the other day. We watch the bird numbers fluctuate all the time, right? And we're definitely not at our highest whatsoever, right? But we're definitely not at our lowest whatsoever. Um, do you think that it's it's the you know, is it, you know, do we do we chalk it up as this bird numbers and we wait to just kind of ride our roller coaster? Or do you think that there's stuff that we could be doing here in Louisiana, seeing that you know you're in you're in the refugee systems, you're in the marsh a lot. Is habitat, um, you know, besides what we're seeing up north, is there anything what what's hurting us here in Louisiana that that could potentially make our hunting a lot better if just as uh for a fix that we have?

SPEAKER_03 53:44

Um I think stewardship is worn mainly on pri public land, not so much private. You know, uh people don't respect the the landscape. You know, it's that lack of habitat.

SPEAKER_02 54:03

Um you know really mainly the steward part of it.

SPEAKER_03 54:09

I I think we should manage pressure better. Yeah. Yeah, we maybe yeah, maybe have more private landowners, you know, maybe build more habitat just for ducks instead of focusing on crawfish in every you know, every inch of the landscape.

SPEAKER_01 54:28

Yeah, and that's such a weird I've heard people say that and crawfish seems like it's it's I guess that'd be I'm sorry, I'll cut you off.

SPEAKER_03 54:37

No, no, no, no, go, go, go. I guess that's a bit hypocritical of me being that I'm taking I'm transitioning my my piece of property into crawfish, but well no, you you gotta make a living.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

Crawfish is profitable, right?

SPEAKER_03 54:48

Yeah, I got kids and stuff. Yeah, we we all have families. And could afford to, you know, have a hundred times sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 54:56

I feel that both sides aren't completely honest about the crawfish. Uh some you know, I've heard people say hey, crawl fish fields are the best habitat for ducks, or they could potentially be what saves ducks down here in Louisiana. Then I've heard it. They definitely utilize it. Yeah. And then I've definitely heard people say that the crawfishing is what's hurting the honey in Louisiana.

SPEAKER_03 55:22

Yeah, it ain't helping, but I to say that it's I don't know. I really don't know. It is hurting it. Yeah, I mean there's habitat there. That's what I see.

SPEAKER_01 55:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:37

I've noticed And I notice birds don't flush out of fields and everything. It depends on how much they're running it.

SPEAKER_01 55:43

Yeah. And it's so weird. You know, not to cut you up, but you're talking about running, it's so weird. Like last year, I drove down one one road uh just south of the of Welsh, right? Different farmers. I seen some guys running the traditional crawfish in their fields. I seen some guys still using the um the push boats. I feel bad for those guys. Yeah, they're probably foreigners. Yeah, yeah, they all they definitely were. And then I seen guys using airboats. And I'm like, oh, they those airboats have to be have to be pushing birds out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:21

Yeah, they don't like airboats.

SPEAKER_01 56:23

That's what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah. So um, but you know, what I have noticed the last couple of years being in the in a crawl in the in the crossfish fields is about mid-December, I started shooting a lot more ringnecks and bluebills and canvas backs and red. I mean, I've shot even a few redheads, and you know, there comes a time where the water starts rising, and I start noticing more diver ducts using you utilizing the um the crawfish more than the than the gadwall. I tell everyone about mid-December, I don't kill very many Gadwall in the in the in the rice.

SPEAKER_02 57:04

And they're back in the marsh.

SPEAKER_01 57:05

Yeah, I will kill a few in the marsh, but I tell everyone from my gadwall, that last week of November and that first week of December is where I'll kill majority of my, you know, it's probably my best hunting in the rice fields where I'm at down here. And I've noticed it that, you know, because I journal down my hunts every hunt. I've noticed that time of the year, consistently after the past, I've been journaling hunts down here for the last seven years. That's where I mainly kill most of my gadwalls, is in that last week of November, first week of December, something happens after the split for me in the rice where the the gadwalls start, you know, they they plummet. I might kill three more gadwall for the rest of the season in the rice.

SPEAKER_03 57:51

You say that the last week of November, first week of December, right?

SPEAKER_01 57:54

December, I killed the majority of my gadwalls in the rice.

SPEAKER_03 57:57

So that will correlate with the bigger push that we get in Missouri around that time. And that would probably, I assume, be some photo-period birds.

SPEAKER_01 58:06

So are you seeing more Gadwall in in during that time in uh November?

SPEAKER_03 58:10

Not necessarily. What what I'm what I'm saying is that I see a big push of mallards at that point. That's the biggest push of mallards is around that time between those two weeks. You can almost take it to the bank. Yeah. You're seeing, you know, a push of them as well, right? Yeah. Um so to me that would make sense. Yeah. Normally around that time, you'll have a good good win, a good front, too. Yeah. It could be both, it could be a culmination.

SPEAKER_01 58:42

Yeah. And the rice, I've never had a consistent mallard shoot. I've had one year that are better than others. Um I kind of noticed the mallards and the rice. Like I said, I had one year where I killed, me personally, I killed 15. And that was the last half of the season. I didn't get any any of the first the first part. Um, it was second split when I started killing some of them in the rice. Um, and I, but I said, I but throughout the sea, if I am gonna kill them, it's gonna be in the I've noticed I have better hunts for the mallards. Um killing them in the in the cypress sloughs right off of big lakes. Any cypress slug or backwater that I that butts up with a major lake, maybe I'm gonna say Miller's Lake because it's a private club. Uh the lake around my house here in De Ritter. Uh, you know, late season, late January is where I killed them, where I started killing mallards out of there. And then Catahula. And I'm gonna say Catahula because everyone knows in Louisiana where Catahula's at. Um, that's where I've noticed some of the better mallard shoots at. It's always off of you know the big leg. I know some guys kill them real good in the marsh. I just haven't had a good marsh mallard hunt.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:05

Um maybe it'll get to one day, hopefully.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:10

One day, I I hope, uh hopefully.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:12

Um we have a good rebound.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

Yeah. Then you know, we talk about the habitat loss. Where do you see the habitat? Because I've heard people talk about we have plenty of habitat here. Uh I see that we have some habitat loss.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:28

Um just look at Lagosine pool, for example. And this is part of the reason, this is part of the management that is the reason why it it the overgrowth, you know. They don't do the drawdowns, therefore the vegetation grows to the surface, causes the overgrowth, it thickens, they don't have anywhere, you know, that they can, it's less surface area water for them. Um in the rice, you know, like I mean, I'll put it to you this way. I travel 14 a lot in between Gaydon, I mean Gaydon and Kaplan. And then that right area is where it's every year you can almost bet it's gonna push further west. In the past three years, it's done it. Now, that may not be, you know, all the way north and all the way south further west, but on 14 and adjacent to 14, you'll see another 300 acres next year. I can almost bet on them. Of rice missing or um rice being replaced by by sugarcane.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:30

By sugarcane. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we're starting to see here in certain parts of Lake Charles, we'll see sugar cane.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:36

Uh yeah, closest sugar mills where?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:39

Uh not sugar mills, but sugarcane.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:41

Right, but where's the closest mills? What I'm saying. Let's so if they're trying if they're driving it as far as I think they are, I mean, that stuff's only gonna take over because they're making money off of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:53

You know?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:54

Now, like, you know, people talk about now for here, rice is number three crop in uh, you know, you know, Louisiana's number three in rice production in in the U.S., right? And sometimes they'll bounce between four between Texas and uh Louisiana. But what I've noticed is right now I could drive around and I'll see rice. Come September, October, it's harvested, and if it's not being crawled fish, it's dissed to dirt with no water. So and that's where you know I'll have like these discussions with guys like you're yeah, you're right. We we are still producing a large amount of rice, but the birds aren't here in August, they aren't here in July eating that rice, and the rice is gone. And I don't blame the farmer, the farmer has to do what he has to do to prepare for the next year. But when it's you know, there's no stubble left, so even if even if it caught rain in it or they did flood, you wouldn't get the invertebrae and the slugs and all that for them to feed on. Yeah, it's dry dirt.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:04

Um, I could be around Hayes, Louisiana, and um you know, you add all those things up, everything we've talked about, and a duck don't stand a chance.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:12

Yeah. Um, you know, I know you're around, you know, Paul and all the other guys. I know Louisiana has a, you know, you put farmers put water on their fields and they'll give a tax break or they'll do a payback. But you every farmer or guys I've talked to says it's just not worth it. I mean, do you do the bottles that you you know you're around, and and you don't have to mention names or nothing, or you know, say I don't know, um, do they talk about like a how can we implement the private guys to help out the state?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:50

Yeah, and for the most part, that's where your your the activity is is the private guys. You know, that's where you we we banned um the majority of our mallards on private, you know. In previous years there was such an abundance of mallards you could do both, but in specs, a lot of a lot of you know the the specs that L DWF bans is our Paul Link, should I say? Yeah, that's done on private ground. Aside from maybe Cameron Prairie. Yeah, you know, he you're not catching specs on public ground anywhere in South Louisiana.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:28

You know, maybe the occasional harsh winter, they'll they'll have some go into Rockefeller or something. I'm sure there has been. I'm not saying there never was.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:40

But you know, that yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:47

You know, I mean, and you know, but you know, before we get on on a more lighter note, uh I like picking your brain because you are you you are being being real, and you you know you're pretty honest when we've talked offline.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:04

I might not be right, but I'll I'll be honest.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:07

Yeah, you you see an almost struggle now in here in Louisiana with uh Delta Waterfowl, the state, federal, du everyone kind of points a finger at everyone. Where where do these nonprofit organizations that you know, and and I have a um not soft spot for these organizations, but I have a um a way of thinking about them, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:35

And there's two ways of looking at it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:38

Yeah, where do you think they fit in on the solution part? And do you think that yes, you know, some people are saying, hey, they're the you know, they're they're solely at fault, or they're the majority at fault for this.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:55

I'll I'll ask this well, who else is gonna fund it?

unknown 1:05:59

Well.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:00

Else is gonna make these projects happen. Yes. You know, I'll let you answer that however you want. Yeah, every this is America. There is um I wouldn't say coercion is not the word, but there's there's crooked people everywhere. You know, even in our government, there's so much corruption. You know, if you donate a certain amount of money to an organization, that organization's most likely gonna favor you. And that's what you see with Delta and and and not so much Delta, but DU, really, and they don't even hide it, they don't hide it at all. But who else are we gonna have? Who we're gonna replace them with? You know, yeah. Ted Nugent? Maybe we can get Ted Nugent out. Uncle Ped.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:52

Uncle Ted, he's a pretty sweet guy. Yeah, Uncle Ted. I never met him, but I think he trapped.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:58

I don't know if you watch his podcast or listen to him every now and then. I do, and he's on a roll.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:02

Yeah, I've watched his podcast and I've watched his um Spirit of the Wild show on the on the outdoors channel.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:08

Yeah, I love these things.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:11

Yeah, I kind of have a twofold, right? Um I've looked, all right. So I know I grew up in California where I've watched Cal Fire Waterfowl Association, which is a great, super great organization. I wish we had an organization that mirrored that here in Louisiana. Um, and if I had the money, the time, mainly the time, I would love to even start one with with a bunch of you know with a bunch of guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:40

Have you ever heard of uh Friends of the Refuge?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:42

No, I have not.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:44

It's it's a couple guys, Southwest Louisiana. There, the it's over the Southwest complex. Local volunteers, nonprofit organization. Um, my good buddy Chris Cole is part of it. Um, I'm in the I'm not I wouldn't say that I'm part of it because I've never really actually lifted a thumb or given them a dime, but I'm in their email threads and stuff. I just I got too many eggs into the basket. Yeah. But uh they they're kind of like that. And it's they donate a lot of their time towards you know the public land aspect of things.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:16

Public land aspect of it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:17

Yeah, trying to get more done, and I think with them opening up some of the the refuge systems and loosening those rains that we're gonna be able to get more, you know, be able to get in there and cut uh Chinese tallow out of it, you know. Go go spray for Salvania or or whatever we gotta do to take care of things.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:36

Yeah, dude, definitely. I've heard more people talk about invasive grass out here in Louisiana than anywhere else I've ever lived in.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:45

Oh, Salvania's the worst. Yeah, it takes over, everything's bad.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:49

You know, I've heard that's the reason why Mar Paul swamps the way it is, you know, now is because of that.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:54

Yeah, I've I've heard that too. Yeah, never worked in there.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:59

Yeah. For you know, and I know you said that um DU doesn't hide for the viewers and from you know for myself too, because you know, um I I like transparency. Where do you where can you find some of the stuff that you know that people say, you know, I heard Wallace, like you know, they're paying directly for the corn and all that. Where can people see that? Where can the common public man see that stuff at?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:28

Well, and I'm not gonna say AI is always accurate, but if you Google it, it's there. You can follow the money. Yeah. You know, it's yeah, they don't hide it. And I I don't know where they got that they pay for the corn necessarily, but they may like certain certain farms they've paid for the development rights, you know. That's why they put soft unlimited pays the salary of which your USDA, your local offices, they pay you the salary for a USDA officer.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:00

Yeah. You know, they keep them on standby, basically. And there's a reason for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:06

Yeah. Yeah. I would you know, I would love to find and see that. And you know, I've had you know du uh entities on here before, and you know, you know, like they say they you know, they definitely say they don't pay for flooded corn or whatnot.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:21

Well they won't directly come out and say that they pay for the flooded corn, but they pay they donate money to that, you know, that collaboration of people.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:32

And they pay for the development rights. So what do you I mean essentially I would say that just because you're not giving direct just because you're not handing Joe cash to plant that corn doesn't mean you're not paying for it. You know?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:48

Yeah. And do you think that's helping or hurting?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:52

Oh, I mean, I think that they could put that money in other places.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:55

Other places.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:56

Yeah, I don't think you should, I don't think that you should be funding million dollar god services.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:02

And that's just what they're doing in mid lateral states. Yeah, so but as far as you know, but donating money for habitat, that's I understand that, but yeah, habitat alone.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:19

Yeah, I I definitely say don't take away habitat. I I would rather not see the I'd if it was up to Joe, I'd I'd want to see the ethanol go away. I'd want to see the less field corn. I I don't want to see people draining freaking um marsh to um to make more farms for it. I you know, right. It's the one thing I I gotta tell everyone two things. We ain't making more land, and the worst thing I could ever say, the the scariest thing I've ever heard or want to hear is we're the government and we're here to help. Um that's the guy that's the guy who's worked with the government his whole life. Yeah. To this day.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:01

Um that speaks volumes.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:04

Yeah, I mean, I've worked, you know, 100% the government, you know, you know, the Department of Defense has paid my bills since I was 18 until 40, I'm about to turn 41 next month. So I mean that's just it is what it is. You know, I I support our country. Uh you know, uh, you know, I'm uh super patriarch, love this country more than anything. But I if if we could fix trick sales and not get our parents involved, uh I would rather have that. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:34

Um at least you can see it for what it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:37

Yeah. Um, because you know, well, it's because uh we get these politicians involved, right? And they do what's best for them, or they're lobbyists, yes, or they do the big, you know, like right now, you know, everyone with the Kennedy. I love I want Kennedy to do this more than anything. But you know, one, if you think our nation right now is thinking about ducks with you know, you see what's going on in the news. Um, we can't even get a peace treaty right now. Uh and then we have the Iran-Iraq conflict, uh Russia, um the Russia-Ukraine conflict, you have China looking at Taiwan like a uh like uh like a starving uh like a starving man, you know, looking at a pork chop.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:26

Yeah, and if you think it's all coincidental, you're wrong.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:29

Yeah, 100%. It's all tied into, you know, trust me. I've been I've been in those countries and they're all tied together.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:35

Um you ask the common folk and uh they don't know, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:38

Yeah, you know, it's you know, yeah, it russia and Iran and what was going on, you know, with all the proxies and China, they're all the same. Um, they're all the same. Um, but you know, that's just Joe speaking. But like, so then it's like, man, do you really want these guys who yes, some of them do duck hunt, but they're not duck hunters, right? They they might go on a paid hunt once a year, take their photos and make everyone feel good about it, but are they real? Is that if duck hunting went away, would it really hurt those politicians? I sometimes I think they they just wouldn't care.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:19

No, they wouldn't. Yeah, so you know that we basically devote our lives to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:25

Yeah, and for guys like us, and I you know, what I hate seeing, and why you know I I harp on you know, the kind of like the subject is I would rather see unity amongst us all now, instead of you know, instead of it being such a hard divide you see with some guys that like at the end of they were all duck hunters. We literally have the same, the same passion, and we all want the same thing, you know. And if you know, if we had 50 million ducks on the landscape, you know, we had 18 million mallers on the landscape, we'd probably all we'd probably all get along and no one would, you know, no one would bicker. It maybe. Yeah, maybe. Uh but yeah, I I I think we sometimes we were we rely on the parents and and big big brother to pretend that they're gonna do the best for us when you know there's other fishes, you know, and it's nothing against them. They just got other big, they got bigger issues, right? Yeah, way bigger issues, way bigger issues, um, you know, for us. But now on a um more friendly topic before we end the podcast, you're actually opened up a guide service in Missouri this year.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:37

Yeah, well, I'm kind of venturing out on my own and and doing my own thing. I've I've filled in as a guide for a few years now. Uh, you know, the stars just lined up where I was able to um at least at least a lodge from a buddy, and I I have the experience afield out there. I've networked people and I was able to lease up some some pretty good quality ground and invest some money in all this. And yeah, uh I've already started booking, but I haven't advertised yet.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:11

It's kind of I I'm sure someone may be listening has been in my shoes, but it's very glorifying being able to, I say this humbly, being able to book, you know, without having to advertise.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:24

It's really nice to know that you people have put trust in you and they have that much confidence. And that's what makes a person motivated. You know, I I didn't plan on guiding and doing this for a living. I I would do it sometimes, you know, to pay for my my duck hunts, my trips, whatever it may be. But I this fell into my lap, and you you line it up with my health, you know, condition that I mentioned a little earlier with my lower back. I I'm just not gonna be able to get back in, you know, the field like I used to be, as far as like the oil field and yeah, working jobs like that. So this is this is really something I'm gonna try to run with, and and I'm gonna offer the public an experience, you know, that they can't really replace. I'm gonna try I'm gonna do my best to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:08

Yeah. What is your outfitter's name?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:11

Uh I'm gonna be I'm running at Little Lacassen Waterfowl.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:14

Little Lacassine Waterfowl.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:16

But I'll be uh partnered with Harris Outfitters, this old Tyson Harris up in Oregon, Missouri.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:22

The the partnership just consists of me leasing the lodge running. Everything else is separate.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:28

And uh we'll see what happens, we'll see where we go. I think it could be a good thing. I think this year, especially with the the property that I've leased up, I doubt we'll have a little bit of flooded corn. So if any cage is one of a couple lessons, okay. I don't mind doing that. The lessons are free, they come with you day rate.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:53

So saying that, you know, what have you seen the difference between the flooded rice and the flooded corn? Like, do how how much different do birds actually really act in it?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:04

They're no different.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:05

No different?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:06

No different. They're not a I I say that, I mean, I've watched through my binoculars when they when they're feeding in that in between those rows where they'll, you know, they kind of act. Well, I guess they don't really act any different than they would in a dry cornfield, but it's like a feeding frenzy, you know, they they're stepping all over each other.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:27

You know, like one particular conservation area in Missouri that floods corn, there was a uh one particular cut that has a mound in the middle when they harvested the corn, a lot of it got knocked over into there. Um they they they shoot each other in the foot if they had a gun.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:44

Yeah. Yeah, and that's another thing, like uh not to get back on the corn topic, but even if they out if they abandon it across the U.S. for for hunting over it, I still wouldn't mind it seeing it supplement moist soil on those refuges for the birds.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:06

Um I mean, you know, you hear a lot of those guys up there talk about moist soil in the winter, they're not gonna use that if it's cold.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:14

They're gonna most likely get, you know, leave because I thought that most my moist soil is gonna freeze up. They're gonna feed in the corn.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:23

I don't think you're gonna ever get rid of the corn amount, you know. Speaking hypothetically, I understand, but yeah. They they don't there's Tony Vandemore and Ira McCullough said that that's why they stay in those moist soil units. Yeah, that's that's a load of crap. They don't like it when it's cold. It's cold. I've seen that, at least not in northwest Missouri, but I don't see them changing their behavior. You know, you go 115 miles southeast.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:47

No, a mallard for me, a mallard, a pintail speckle belly in Canada is the same bird that does the same stuff here in Louisiana, and you hear a lot with the people calling, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:01

I say that in reference to their form. That's that part is for me up there.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:06

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I that bird's looking the same thing in Canada that's looking from down here in Louisiana. Yeah. It's looking for safety, water, food, and um not being shot in the face.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:20

Exactly. If it's freezing cold, that's gonna feed on whatever carbs.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:24

Whatever, yeah. At that point, it's going in survival mode. Right. Um, but if viewers want to um book a hunt with you, where you know, where can they get in touch with you two book hunts, you know, either this season or even in future seasons?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:40

Yeah, um, I have my cell phone. I I can uh I guess I can give it out on here. I'd rather not, but uh Facebook really.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:49

On Facebook, Jacob Scott Abear. Um, I do have a page, little lack of scene that's in the works. I will before the end of the week, I keep saying I'm gonna advertise, but I keep booking people. So I'm just putting it off, putting it off. And uh, but reach out to me on Facebook, Jacobs Scott Abear or Instagram, same thing. If you have any uh questions about you know what the package includes, you know, I got lodging. You know, I it's gonna, I'm gonna have a first class cook. It's gonna be he's a Cajun. And he was uh his name's Blake Abear. He'll be hosting me for the first few weeks, and then I'll have to transition to uh having some buddies cook or me myself, or just find a full-time chef, I guess. I wish I could have Blake the whole time. You know, he hosted the Gate on Duck Club and he's a comedian as well. He's a he's a character, real funny, real funny guy, real good guy.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:42

Yeah, you get a dinner and a show.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:45

Yeah. Shout out to Blake and thanks for helping me out, buddy. Yeah, you know, feel free to reach out to me on on Facebook and I can get you hooked up. We'll we'll get you some lessons.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:58

And um for that, uh are you mainly doing duck?

SPEAKER_03 1:22:02

Are you doing I started out with a 16-day window that I was gonna offer people because I thought that's all I could maybe feel, but but apparently I'm I'm better than that, I guess. And I I filled those days and and I've extended them to into more, but uh going out. I don't forgot your question.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:20

Yeah. Um, are you doing just duck or no?

SPEAKER_03 1:22:24

I'm I'm using the ducks and the geese, but I was gonna run on the ducks. I was gonna run on on fresh, I was gonna chase them fresh feeds if I could on the dry fields, but now that I've extended those dates and and opened up more, more people were asking about geese, so I had to offer that too. And I uh so I hired a goose guide, uh uh uh and I secured some pretty good goose fields.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:47

So we'll be running any conservation snow goose?

SPEAKER_03 1:22:53

Uh that's gonna be Tyson's deal. Tyson Harris is gonna be offering that in the out of the same lodge, but obviously during conservation season.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:02

I'm strictly fall ducking goose.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:04

Yeah, super excited for you. I I always I like seeing guys venture out in the outdoor industry. Um, I think it's super cool. Um you know, I've you know, like I said, you know, my guiding is pretty much just like your guiding was. It was literally just to fund my uh my habit down here to keep the keep the wife happy to where I'm not you know I'm not dipping too much in our in our um our savings in our bank account. It kind of you know duck hand pays for itself. You may you're a better man than me. Yeah. Um but like I always say you gotta take chances. Yeah. Um for me, we always end up. I start the season in negative. I pay for my leases in May. Hopefully, teal when I guide teal and I guide early spec in um yeah, in uh um up in Arkansas. I'm like usually I am super hoping I break even for my leases this year. I break even and I just fun hunt during during the big duck season.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:02

Uh you know, I like I tell everyone, every water, you know, guys that are married that have you know that waterfowl hunt with wives, they're probably the most forgiving people. Uh they're very patient.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:14

Um, they've had to be, you know, they had to learn.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:17

Yeah, definitely. But hey, brother, it has been awesome having you on, man. I definitely want to have you back on after this, you know, after the season to talk about how your season was and how you know we've seen this last season uh of hunting. But uh and I I mean I want to know more about the you know, even more about some of the banning stuff. And um we'll if you'll kind of see where some of this GPS stuff. I wish we could talk more about the GPS stuff, but I know people will then target birds, and it is what it is.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:46

I uh maybe we can get a do a little collaboration and get Paul on here.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:51

I would absolutely love to have Paul on.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:55

Yeah, he would uh it's hard for that man to find time.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:58

Yeah, I heard it. I've always heard he is a very, very busy, but I've heard rumors of him maybe hanging it up here pretty soon.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:05

Yeah, I don't I'm not sure. I mean he can answer that.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:09

Yeah, I've heard rumors of him maybe retiring.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:12

Um but no, I knew he I know his retirement was coming up, but uh you know how people are, they'll spend their retirement. Yeah, stop, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:22

Yeah, I mean, we all get hobbies, we buy new toys, we gotta we gotta pay for them. Yeah, yeah. But hey, brother, Jacob, thank you for being on. Uh, thank you for coming on. Hey, if every you know, if you guys are looking for a hunt or or or even if you're in Louisiana and you want to help out with the banding and all that, get a hold of him on his Facebook, um, Jacob Scott Ambear, look him up on Instagram. Um, Jacob, I once again, I greatly appreciate you coming on and talking with me.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:52

Yes, sir, Joe. I appreciate you having me, man. I hope we can send some limelight on some matters for the public.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:58

And then you know what? If we can what I what I want out of these podcast series about down here is one, I'm not from Louisiana, but Louisiana, I fell in love with it. It has a special place for me and my family. It's unique, it's unique. Uh, great people down here. Uh the hunting is good as much as everyone, it's still a great waterfowl destination.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:22

And we still harvest more ducks than anybody than anyone else.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:26

And if I can bring a little bit of unity to back to the waterfowl community and realize that, hey, we will do so much more working with each other instead of working against each other, you know, I feel that I've done a little a little bit of my part.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:45

Well, yeah, and we'll be better off in the long run. We're all on the same page.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:49

Yes, brother. But for the viewers, thank you for your support. Thank you for tuning in. And like my great friend Chris always says, let Valor not fail.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:56

Thank you, Joe.