Grumpy Duck Co

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Flyway Connections is brought to you by our partners who keep us chasing birds all season long. We're talking about DOW Outfitters in Arkansas, delivering unforgettable guided hunts in the heart of the flyway. GH decoys, American-made, time-tested decoys built to last season after season. A Bear custom decoy rigs, keeping your spread dialed in with reliable, hand built rigs that stand up to any condition. RMC calls from the duck line to any world championship stage. They just work, designed to allow you to grow to your full capacity. No fancy marketing, no gimmick, just quality sound and craftsmanship. And they say you can't polish a turd. Small shop, big sound. And also, Hunt Repellent is a DEET free, stem-free, insect repellent made for hunters, fishermen, or anybody who wants to enjoy the outdoors. Remember, DEET is dead.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

How are you doing today, Brett? Good, good. How are you? Not too bad, not too bad. So for the viewers, unless you've been living under a rock the past, you know, I don't know, at least five to six years, you would know who uh using Grumpy Duck, right? Um you know, with some of the products, well-known products mainly is your guys' charging handles for chakra. Yep. I like I said that's what I if anyone look looks at any of my Instagram stuff, you'll see my banded uh charging handle on my SX4.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

So big question before we get it is how to start?

SPEAKER_04 1:57

Uh it started with um where we are here in the Atlantic Flyway. We don't see many banded ducks, but there was a local banding project. So a few of us, uh, I had shot my first duck band that was a local band, and then a couple years later had shot uh a couple other bands, but I didn't have a lot. So wanted to do something different with one of the bands. Uh my dad is a precision machinist, so uh he has his own business. So I took the idea to him and I had a drawing of approximately what I wanted. And he had lost a handle out of his Monofeltro before, so we'd replace we've made a replacement. Um, and the first one we made out of steel, and I it was going on a Benelli M220 gauge. So I wanted it to be lightweight so it didn't affect the inertia action. So he made the next one out of titanium, and that design was exactly what our first generation handle was. Um, and I made the first one. Well, we made four in a first run. Uh, one for my dad, one for myself. I gave one to a buddy Alex, and then one to a buddy Billy that was uh I met him at a hunt doll or uh a hunt test. And he took me on my first like real duck hunt on the Chesapeake, and I gave him one of the first four handles at the Easton Waterfowl Show in 2019. After that, uh he texted me every time somebody would see it, he said they want one. So I put a post up on a Facebook forum and it got a bunch of messages. And so with uh with those two things, I was I started the business, and that would have been early 20, well, late 2019, incorporated in 2020, because it took a while to come up with a name. So yeah, that's it was all just started as just knowing a couple of people and meeting them at the right time, and yeah, just some encouragement, like I said, from Billy. He said everybody that sees it wants one. And that's kind of been how it's been since that day. Uh, I've never done any advertising short of uh just Instagram and Facebook, but yeah, we've not done any advertising yet. Just people having them on their gun sells it, and we do go to nine shows a year approximately.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

Yeah, I mean, that's why I found you was on Facebook, and I bought one for my uh SX4. And with the the group of guys I hunt with, you know, I had a tight knit group of guys down here in Louisiana. And um, we kind of it's not a necessarily a duck club, but it's the same group of guys, we got the same lease every you know, same farm lease every year. And slowly they all started getting, you know, getting one of the grumpy duck uh charger handles. May it be a band or I have a couple buddies that really love the wax string.

SPEAKER_04 5:02

Yeah, the wax bread. Yeah, yeah, that that came about. Uh, I had some stuff done. It wasn't even for the business or anything, but there's uh a canvas shop locally, and it's uh an old Amish guy, and he attached the price tag with this wax twine. And as soon as I saw it, I was always as soon as I had the bandit handle and people liked it, I was like, Well, I need something else. And wrapping something around that same shape was my first go-to of like, why create something new? Just put something else on there. Um, I tried some leather options, and that didn't quite work the way I wanted it, and I still haven't figured that out. But the wax twine, he attached it with a price tag, and I said, Hey, do you have more of this? And he said, Yeah, and I just bought a whole spool from them right there, and that is still the same stuff like I use. So, but that's it's a unique feel, and it's kind of like the old duck calls that were wrapped. Yeah, that was that was it was a perfect thing.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

So yeah, uh, I've real good buddy of mine. Um, he's actually from South Carolina originally, but then you know we both retired out of here in Louisiana, and he's a very um old-time type hunter. He he he's maybe I say old time, he's only two years younger than me. He's actually younger than me, but he's real big on the wooden, the wooden guns and oh yeah, his old wax can he wears wax canvas um yeah, uh jackets and hats, and uh yeah, it it just suits him, it fits him real well. And he has it on a SX4 as well.

SPEAKER_04 6:35

Uh yeah, we we do that for all the Shingear Film Fest handles. We put their logo on and sell those just at the film fest because the wax thread is very much in brand with them. Yeah, and that's yeah, they really like it. So Grumpy Duck, how'd you come up with that name? Uh it was an early name I liked, and my wife didn't. And so we went past it, and I have a group of buddies uh that I was just running through all the different options. Uh, and it it took a long time, and then we came back to Grumpy Duck, and it was just one of those, like, yeah, I generally was not a morning person, so it was a little too fitting. And even now, that's what we say, it's our fallback for customer service. Like, we didn't name it friendly duck for a reason. So, but but no, it's yeah, it's good, it's it's been broad, and it's it's been better uh than I realized it would be. People really like it, and it's important for branding. I didn't know how important branding was five years ago, six years ago for sure, but it's it's been good, it's been a really great, great choice for me. It fits it. Yeah, yeah, and it it was like, yeah, there's not much more to it. I knew duck hunters were my main customers, so Grumpy Duck and the Wood Duck uh logo took, I mean, months and months of iterations before I came up with that. And I drew it um just off of like black and white, because a wood duck, I just saw the G and the D on there naturally, and then I did have an artist finish the digital parts for me. But it's yeah, that's turned out people really love that too.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:22

So um, not to get too much away from the business, but how'd you get into duck hunting?

SPEAKER_04 8:28

Duck hunting, uh, a guy I fished with, uh I used to bass fish. That was like my passion. That's all I love to do. Um, high school, college, and after college. Uh and then I hunted some with one of the guys I fished with. He took me on my first ever duck hunt on our local river. Uh, shot some wood ducks with him. Still have one that's mounted, one of the first night strikes I ever shot around here. Uh, and then in 20, I don't know, 13 or so, 14, uh, something around there, we got our boy Conspaniel and our first one. And from there, it was like chasing hunt tests all over the place and training him. It was, you know, didn't have any children. And yeah, we took him all over. The first hunt test we ever took him to was down on the eastern shore of Virginia. Um, and that's where again I met my buddy Billy. And from there, we were just like Instagram buddies, and he said, Hey, come down and hunt with me. And it was one of those, like, all right. So I jumped in the car and slept in his garage. And yeah, we've been friends ever since. Still traveled down to see him. But uh, he took me on my first hunt, and it was like kind of weather-driven. Uh, the marshes all frozen over, and we saw probably 40,000 ducks that day. And I'm not exaggerating, it was insane. Just thousands and thousands of redheads and Gadwall and everything because the marshes were frozen, they were all out today. And so, yeah, we set up a couple times, almost lost every decoy to ice twice, and then finally got set up and we shot two gadwalls. But I still remember like it was just incredible to see that many birds, and that's what I still think is like my first like real waterfowling experience. And then every year since then, I've hunted with him uh at least a couple days. And I mean, down on the eastern shore, like we've done every type of hunting you can do. He's a taxidermist and he talks, you know, knows a lot of people, um, tons of public land opportunities. So we did all manner of hunting down there. So um that really was like my peak of waterfowling was running around with him. And then I brought a lot of those lessons back home and you know, chased ducks around here. And we did pretty well for a few years. But the dogs are really uh I have two boykins still. Um, Ruby, my female, she still hunts a little bit, but she doesn't tolerate the cold as well. But yeah, hunting, it was more about the dogs than it was ever about hunting for me. So, and now that my my male's all he's retired, he's older now. But yeah, I just and we don't get as many ducks, don't have as much time to scout, and I'm way too busy with the shop in the winter time. So yeah, duck hunting is few and far between for me anymore.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

Yeah, it's it's funny when uh me and you talk about this on the phone, like when I talk to guys, and you know, they're like, Oh man, I bet you know our our good buddy Stump. Yep. You know, but the guys are always like, Oh man, I bet he just loves you know, duck. Like when you're in the industry and you make a product that hunters use during honey season, like your hunting actually gets kind of hunting is in the back burner.

SPEAKER_04 11:56

You're oh yeah, if you're making business customer service, yeah, you have to be here, especially yeah, November through January for any waterfowl, but like yeah, November through Christmas for those sales, just online sales in general is gonna be out. Yeah, you're my time is very limited. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:18

Man, so it I I think guys from hunting who hunt the Atlantic flower are really interesting. I enjoyed my time hunting in North Carolina. Uh that's the only area that I've hunted when it came to the Atlantic flower. Hunt on the coast of North Carolina and some mainland. Um, but I always find you I really like the duck hunting culture, the wild or fowl culture of like like you said, the Chesapeake Bay and everything. I I think it's a it's a very forgotten uh culture that you know when every everyone thinks duck hunting, we all everyone thinks Arkansas, I think Louisiana, they think Mississippi, you know, just up and down the Mississippi Flyway. But for me, growing up in uh California and Sack Valley and the Pacific Flyway, we had a very unique waterfowl culture that you know people don't realize. And um when I left you know, when I joined the service and you know, got to travel all over the US, I thought everyone hunted the same way that I hunted growing up in California. And then I realized like there's a whole nother like more of the world. Like I thought pintails were like they were back home. I'm like, I thought everyone treats pentails, like you know, and then you know, and when you tell people like all everyone's first ducks like Dreamling Teal or Wood duck, and well, my my first ducks I killed, I killed two when there were two uh bull drakes. Yeah. I didn't know two bull pintails. I didn't I didn't think anything of it. But the east coast in that like to the Chesapeake Bay, Matamuski, all of Maryland up into Maine. It's a very unique um uh waterfowl culture, especially said uh you go to Easton every year. Yeah, they'll show there. Yeah, I haven't been to Easton yet, but you know, it's one that I want to go to. It's just a real bad timing for me every time season. Yeah, ton season. And um, but I mean, can you just prove for the viewers explain like that area east in Maryland during especially around that time frame?

SPEAKER_04 14:30

Well, Easton is tough. I'm not so I'm five hours or so from the Bay area where my buddy is. So that area though is there's a lot of public and there is a lot of prior, there's a lot of pressure as well. But their seasons have gotten changed. I know for the goose hunters, they're back to like, and I I'm I could get this wrong because it's changed often, but they might be back to like one goose in 30 days, but there's geese all over the place. Depends on where you are. But I mean, there's a lot of geese down there compared to where I'm at, in I'm in the geographical center of Pennsylvania. Yeah. So just south of Penn State for anybody that's you know college football, we're 30 minutes south of there, roughly. Um, but we have generally poor duck hunting. The East Coast is very spotty as far as it's regional as far as what you're getting into. Like we get some mallards, some black ducks if we get good cold weather. Um, we'll shoot wood ducks in our early season. But um, yeah, we're shooting a lot of resident geese. We get a lot of time to hunt geese where we are because it's the resident population. So we have long seasons, five geese a day. Um for all the seasons, September, it's eight, eight geese a day. Um, but again, it's really spotty, and there's also pressure. You know, you got the young kids, like we used to be the young guys scouting all the time. Like any field they landed in, we were knocking on doors and like we were hounding them. They didn't have a safe space unless they found it. So, and there's guys out there doing that now, and we're the old guys that are just like, ah, we just want to go hunting, like we just want to go sit on the river with our friends. And like, yeah, it's very spotty. Like, and you drive an hour and a half towards like Lancaster, Middle Creek, Pennsylvania. That's where all the snow geese will winter. Um, that gets some good waterfowl around that region, but it's tons of pressure. You're not, you're probably not gonna knock on a door and get permission that doesn't already have somebody hunting it. So, yeah, uh the eastern shore, anything coastal is yeah, wide open. Like, have fun. You could go down to any number of places, you're not gonna be alone, but like you could go kill ducks, like that's for sure. But it's gonna take work and it's you know, it's not easy anywhere. And I think that's kind of like how we grow up, you know, you we're not afraid to do all the work when you're younger. And some of the older like some guys still do it all, but that's the guys that are shooting a lot of ducks, but they're living out there, they're spending a ton of time, or they have great access or great property, or you know, so they're you know, just doing the work. I think that's what most guys like they see a lot of guys killing ducks, but it's that's just the highlight reels of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 17:30

So for so Pennsylvania, you're talking about um the snow geese. I love geese. Uh all the gun snows were probably the white devils. The white devils. Um we have a pretty decent population during during our late uh waterfall season here in Louisiana. Um but you guys get like the what the what they consider what the greater snow goose?

SPEAKER_04 17:57

Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm not a big snow goose guy. I've hunted them like once or twice. Um, I got friends that have rigs, but they are at this point, everybody says the greaters are they're really hard to kill. If you want a decoin, um, but guys still jump them at, you know, the kids will still jump them. And farmers, they want you know, they just want them gone a lot of times. But um, yeah, they're tough. And it's a lot, you know, like snow geese. You'll shoot a few or you know, maybe nothing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're they're graders from what I understand. Like I said, I've uh I was on a hunt and we shot one juvie, and that's as close as I've come to say when I shot one.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

Yeah, I mean uh I had a buddy that he was stationed in Delaware. Yeah, they're getting good down there. Yeah, not Delaware, New Jersey, uh dick. Yeah, and um he uh he said they they were the bane of his existence. He you know, yeah, he would hunt them and you'd kill five. You'd have one good day and kill 20. Then the next day you'd zero zero zero.

SPEAKER_04 19:02

Yeah, yeah, that's not my game. Like, and that's the noise, just the speakers and the yeah, that's not my game. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:13

So you surgery company, kind of like a lot of guys in the waterfall industry, out of you said necessity, you got you wanted to replace a um a part of Monte Felter, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:24

Yeah, yeah, that was the first handle dad made.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

Yeah. When did you realize that man, we're on to something here?

SPEAKER_04 19:33

It was pretty fast, honestly. And it the timing was kind of convenient. I had a job where I was contracting, um, so I was kind of self-employed, and then this kind of kicked up, and it was just like I said, I put the one post on and I had a bunch of private messages, like 40 private messages from one post. And I was like, all right. And then my buddy telling me, he's like, hey, you know, everybody that sees it wants it. So I made a few, and once I got the website going, I had a few sales, just like, I don't know how it happened, you know, but they started kind of creeping in. And I looked at it as a part-time thing. You know, if I could sell X number of handles annually, it'll let me, you know, write off some of my hobby. And, you know, it was just like a little walking around money, maybe if it pays for itself, great. Um, so that's that's where it started, and it just has steadily grown. And that's why I haven't changed anything. Um, I just keep trying to build the best handles, and it slowly grows, and we're just just walking along with it. I'm not trying to, you know, make the most money as fast as I can. I just want to keep building the product and the brand as as best I can without redoing stuff as many times, like as as few times as possible.

SPEAKER_03 21:04

Yeah. And for the viewers who haven't seen uh the website yet or any of your Instagram, what um what kind of charging handles do you have um to offer? Like I know you have pretty much every shotgun under the sun, all the major ones, but design-wise, design-wise, the bandit is definitely the most popular.

SPEAKER_04 21:22

Um, and then we have a handle called the standard. Um, I'm not very creative with the naming. And it was just like, because I was doing it all on my own, and it was I didn't want to spend too much time, and it's just like this is a standard shape. That's what we called it. Um, but it has just kind of got two little grooves and then a center kind of concave shape, so that you, you know, your finger would possibly uh you know hold in there. And then on the face of that is typically where we would engrave um any different image. We had a duck track, which is we're gonna phase, which is phased out, um, turkey tracks, and then we'll be doing some other engraving. On there, like different waterfowl species. I had a goose head I've done at some shows. I'll put my logo on there here and there. Um, and then the wax thread is the same exact thing as the banded, uh, just wax thread instead of the band. And then uh the extended engraved is the longest handle. It's seven eighths of an inch versus like the nine sixteenths plus or minus of the other ones. Um, but that's we engrave a hex design on, and then the logo on the end. Uh a lot of guys in cold weather, some of the gas gun guys like those, just a little more grip. Um, and then the most recent is the Jake, and we only make that for five guns, and it's mainly a turkey uh it's aimed at turkey hunters. It's very small, it's about a half inch long, just a really tiny, minimalist handle, so it doesn't get caught on anything. And the intention originally was to prevent the Benelli click, which is where you know your gun drops out of battery. Yeah. And that's it's if it gets hung on any clothing. We had a customer who wanted it for his daughter's gun because she was left-handy, left-handed. So the way she carried the gun, it would like constantly kind of catch on her vest. And so he's like, I want a small handle. I didn't want to build it, so my dad built it for him. And I was like, Well, it's not so bad. And so now we sell it. Yeah, that was yeah, but yeah, I have to give him credit. That's he he asked for it and I resisted. So that's we sell them now. We sell them for Benelli, Ritay, and uh the TriStar Viper and Moxburg SA guns, which are the little gas guns.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

Yeah. Um what I you know.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

I don't know. I didn't see you advertised, but you guys are are starting to do uh gun work, right?

SPEAKER_04 23:56

Like seracode or is that so with uh over the course of this, I was doing this in my garage, and then in 20, what are we in 26? It's been like two and a half years ago, uh building came up close to me, available for purchase, and we bought it. My wife and I bought it and uh moved the company into here. Uh and I went, I got my 07 uh FFL, which is manufacturers, which is what you need to Sarakote guns. And because we had all of the Seracode equipment, so why not use it? And we're always tinkering anyway. So um and my buddy, he had been Sarah coding and all that stuff previously. So uh he now works full-time. That's Ryan Neff. Um, but yeah, he works, he does pretty much all of the Sarah coding at this point, and we we've been rolling it out for local and drop-off customers only, just because shipping and handling of guns coming from all over the country, and I just don't have the logistics and the time to handle that to open it up. But uh currently we're building out an online brochure to address all those questions because that's that's part of the bad thing about showing stuff on social media when you can't take the work, is like everybody wants stuff done, but it's yeah, like I can't do it yet. But I've had quite a few guys that that drones stuff up, drops it off, and we've been turning that stuff around a little bit. Yeah, it's been slow because we're busy with the handles and like I said, we're not the best businessman when it comes to making money. Like, I just I don't want to do stuff twice. So I'm trying to do it right and do it the first time.

SPEAKER_03 25:48

I mean, then and that's a big thing, um, especially nowadays with you know everything wants everyone wants instant gratitude right now, right now, right now. Which I ain't gonna lie, sometimes I can be that way. I tell people I don't really like shopping online because I paid money, I kind of want the product in my hand already. Uh yeah, I want to see it, right? But like you said, doing it right the first time, and you know, knowing that you you know there's another aspect to quality. I think sometimes people don't see that quality takes time.

SPEAKER_04 26:20

Yeah, that's I think uh my customers do like that. It's nice. Everything we try to do is, you know, outside of apparel, which we could probably should start, but is like it's made in the US. Everything the handles are 100% made in my hometown of Belleville, Pennsylvania. Um, so my dad and my brother are the machinists, and then we do the rest in here. So, but yeah, everything's right here. The gun work and the engraving is really what got a lot of attention. Uh, did a turkey gun that we had at the NWTF show, and it I think where we see you at Dixie Deer, or you saw it at Raleigh. Yeah, some yeah, so that that got a lot of attention. Um, yeah, so that's that's coming, but we're just slow to roll it out. We're doing all the testing on our own guns to make sure like when we offer something, it's here's your options, here's what we can provide, here's the price, and the turnaround time is quick.

SPEAKER_03 27:20

Yeah, so so yeah, well, I could see well, even before I just had one over addicted ears, it was a word of mouth. Uh, because I have a shop gun that SX4 that uh it was my guide gun, it's my my workhorse. It looks like it's it's been through uh the hell and back. And um, I was trying to find a place to uh you know get it done. And someone was like, hey, you know, rugby duck's starting to you know, starting to get into this. I was like, I'll look into that.

SPEAKER_04 27:49

But yeah, so it'll be a while till you could chip it up, but there's definitely some. I mean, that and I tell a lot of people like unless I'm doing something that somebody else isn't, like there's lots of great Seraphop shops and hydro dip shops. Like, just find a good quality one, especially if you got one you can drive to, it shaves you all that shipping and yeah, the chance to lose like UPS or USPX or FedEx losing it. Like, yeah, it's just one of my nightmares, and that's why I just hate the idea of shipping guns. I know we do it all the time, but um still nerve-wracking. It is for me, it is, and I it's like they lose enough handles, it's a smaller thing, but it's yeah, so but yeah, I tell everybody like find a great shop locally if you want an engraving or a pattern or like the wood stocks that we're doing, that's gonna definitely I don't know nobody else is doing that, so we'll be your guys for that. But um, yeah. Uh what made you guys get into that? We're we're just gear heads. Um yeah, I I've always been a gear head. Um, I probably like the gear and the preparation for a hunt as much as I like the hunt. Uh, because before waterfowling, I did some backpack hunts out west, uh, big game, different species. And yeah, just like the six-month process and the buildup of a big game hunt with like just three buddies where you're packing back in. You have to have your things dialed in. And yeah, it's like I needed to check it 10 times before we left, and like it still wasn't good enough. But but yeah, the gear and the prep, and I'm still a gear head. I like toys and things, and yeah, so we just testing stuff out and always wanting to have something that's different. Yeah. So yeah, just making something that's that looks better and works just as well as anything else out there is kind of our our game. Uh I was it's like form and function, it has to look good and work very well. So yeah, it's right now that's what I I always joke. Like, Grumpy Duck is just arts and crafts time all day for us. Because I draw on the digital pad for the engravings or other stuff, and yeah, just work on other projects.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

But yeah. Um, now you see you said you're getting rid of the uh the duck footprint, but I've seen a lot of people with that turkey that is with turkey hunters. I know it's grumpy duck with is is a is it a catch-out lot of uh turkey guys?

SPEAKER_04 30:26

Oh yeah, the turkey track, we're yeah, very popular in the turkey woods for sure. Um, and honestly, yeah, don't hold it against me, but if I had a choice, I would hunt turkeys over ducks every year. And if yeah, if I had to pick one or the other, I would chase spring turkeys over fall and winter ducks every I'm judging a little bit, but that's fine. I hate people a lot of guys, a lot of my buddies say the same thing. That's what I that was the first thing I ever hunted with my dad, and it's still to this day, it is like my favorite thing, is is but I we only dad and I are like the purists, and we like to sit down and call them to a tree. That's just like what we like to do. We you know, I've shot them every kind of way, but sitting down calling them to you is like there's nothing better.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

So um switching a little bit to turkey, you hunt mainly all in Pennsylvania?

SPEAKER_04 31:27

Uh no. Um main most of my hunting, yes, has been in Pennsylvania. Um, the good old days were back when I started when I was a kid, and it's like, you know, I wish we'd have known how good it was back then. It's tougher now for sure. There's this this season was tough. Last year I had a good year, um, but this year was definitely tougher for sure. Um, just for our area, I'm sure it was good, but there was they were just a little quiet, odd. But um, I've hunted Virginia the past few years. My I have a cousin that lives down there, so I take the boat down and I'll hunt in the mornings and fish all evening. So we've been close a couple times, but it's there's a lot of pressure down there. Yeah. Um, and we're hunting public, and it's just close to my cousin's house. That's the only reason we're there. And uh, but we don't go out and roost them either, so we're fishing, catching smallmouth. So um, but dad and I went to South Dakota this year and uh hunted Miriams. Um, so he got his Miriam, and that's the last one he needed for his shooting the four.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

Yeah. So yeah, but I've hunted a number of states for turkeys. But you guys have Pennsylvania eastern Pennsylvania?

SPEAKER_04 32:41

Oh yeah, all Eastern's for sure. But yeah, it's our uh hunting like on wooded ridges is that's the best way to do it. And that's what we got there. So yeah. Oh yeah, I hunt in California. Actually, uh probably south east of where you were in Sacramento. We were Don Pedro Reservoir. Yeah, yeah, yep, yep, yep. I know it's uh there's a there was a beef ran, there was a ranch out there that my buddy knew the people we hunted there a couple of years, and we killed some birds. It was a lot of fun out there, yeah. They would gobble all day long. It was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_03 33:28

Yeah, so originally I will so we hunted up in our duck clubs were up in the South Valley, but I'll imagine he was born and raised in Fairfield, California, which is about 20 minutes in from Napa.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:41

So not too far from uh that area you're hunting.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

I tell everyone they're they're a lot more vocal, and I I tell people they're kind of stupid sometimes.

SPEAKER_04 33:52

Yeah, for the eastern yeah, it's different, and I see even the Miriams, they were a little different here and there. Um, the Rios, I don't think they had as much pressure. I still haven't met a turkey that was like that wanted to get shot yet. Yeah, they're still not that curious, but they're more forgiving in some places. Yeah. Uh our Easter's like, yeah, you can be hundreds of yards away and slow the truck down, and they're looking at you and heading the other way. Like they want no part of humans. Um yeah, even you know, different places, but it's just different interactions, too. Where we were, I don't know, I don't think anybody had hunted them like too close to there. There was other properties nearby that they were getting hunted, but not right there. So it definitely made it easier. But the being the vocal, and they're much more predictable in their roosting spots. What we saw. Yeah, it's like you know, the landowner was like, they roost in this tree, this tree, and this tree. And I was skeptical, but come evening time, they were in this tree, this tree, and this tree. So that made it a lot easier, and it was just more visual out there, there's more open space. But for us, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:08

Yeah, well, yeah, even like where I'm at, it's all from our group, it's all like roll, slowing, like rolling hills, foothills, the foothills, kind of stuff. But then you're you're hunting like around the reservoir. Um uh where I'm at, we have some big lakes by like Lake Lake Clear Lake and Lake Barry. Do they root were they roosting kind of close to like the the lake?

SPEAKER_04 35:33

Well, there was uh ponds nearby. Ponds, yeah. So they were hitting water and then piecing out. But they were it was just certain trees. Just certain trees that they and the people that live there, I mean, they just saw every night. There's the turkeys. But but yeah, they still like it was still a little challenging to to figure out, like, oh be here and you know, yeah. So but it was yeah, all fun. Like, yeah, goblin turkeys are my favorite thing. Nice, nice.

SPEAKER_03 36:06

Yeah. Um, I definitely took for granted to like to North Carolina to get in there, and coming here to Louisiana, where I was like, oh, this is Naihu. You know what? Yeah, we need to talk about we used to juggle how you know how it is difficult in North Carolina too, but they're like you know, those Easterns are a lot different than the Easterns we have down here. They're just just smarter. Smarter and more just big headed. Um but um for you now you're getting like the show season, right? You know, you know, there's done you know, all the different expos are coming up. How many do you usually hit a year?

SPEAKER_04 36:46

Nine shows a year. So I start off with Harrisburg, which is nine straight days. Um, and that usually is right before NWTF this past year, and the next few it's scheduled to conflict. So um that is February. Uh NWTF is usually Valentine's Day weekend, plus or minus. Yeah. Um, and then we go to Dixie Deer Classic and Raleigh. And then that I did a show in Columbus a couple years ago, and then I didn't do it this year, but we might do that in the future. That's also in late, late March. And then we're done until July, and then we start at Squad Fest, and then we go to Delta. Uh, so Squad Fest is in uh St. Louis at Dive Bomb's new building, uh, new showroom. Uh that show is really great. Uh, if you're if nobody's ever been like dive bomb stuff, there's lots of great vendors there. They put on a great show. Um, and then Delta is in Des Moines this year, Des Moines, Iowa, then back to Ducks in Memphis. So Ducks in Memphis last year was exceptional. So I expect it to be so again. Um yeah, it was it was a really great show. And then we do uh Oshkosh in Wisconsin and then uh Shingear Film Festival, yeah and then finish it up with Easton and the Shinge Films.

SPEAKER_03 38:23

That's in um Memphis as well. Memphis as well, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I visited. Yeah, I visited the new Shin store they have in um Stugard's past. Oh yeah, yeah, I'm sure that's great. Oh yeah, I tell them that is definitely walking into a I was like, oh man, this is way too high class for me.

SPEAKER_04 38:43

They're like nice stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

Yeah, I was like, oh, this is this is like a boutique. This is way too high class.

SPEAKER_04 38:51

It's a really cool event. It really is. Like, yeah, it's funny when you look at these guys, you know, and you see some of the guys, and then you see like their duck hunting stuff, and it's like, yeah, it's it's a nice, like it's a great date night for people. People come and but we set up a booth. We I mean, people come to spend money too. It's great. Yeah, it is a really cool event, it's a unique one, but it's a one evening last year. It rained pretty hard, but yeah, it was still, I mean, it's a like 18-19 hour drive from me to Memphis, and I'd I do it for a one evening show. So it's a fun, yeah, it's a fun, fun one. Definitely if you're in that area or want to travel, get some tickets. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_03 39:31

I I talked to a lot of guys. Uh, I have a real good buddy, Joey Hibbs, who um he has an apparel um line, and it seems like the when you talk to everyone when they're getting done off the show, you know, it seems like the shows start like right after season from February, all the way up to August. It seems like everyone's kind of whooped after.

SPEAKER_04 39:54

Yeah, and I'm sure if it depends on what if you do some other shows, like I mean, you I'm sure there's a show every weekend I could go to somewhere, but yeah, I I probably should do more, but the show is right on the heels of like busy season with online shopping and hunting. If you're hunting or outfitting, and then Harrisburg, especially. If guys are doing Harrisburg and trying to do NWTF at the same time, or Harrisburg, which is the great American outdoor show. That's just what I call Harrisburg, but um, then right you you literally pack your show up on Sunday and drive to Nashville to set up Tuesday or Wednesday for the Thursday, Friday, Saturday show. That was a brutal couple of weeks. Um yeah, that I usually and that's it's always fun, like when I see the guys that are like at the show and they're out having a good time and partying, and then you see them at the show, like working the next day. And I'm just like, I'm way too tired to be doing any of the fun stuff. Like, yeah, I it's like it's cool that they, you know, they're there partying, because I'm sure it's the only time they get to see certain people, and it's the same for me. It's like I wish I had more energy, but I'm an old, I'm an old old man at heart, and I it shows I go to bed early.

SPEAKER_03 41:14

Yeah, yeah, we traveled, we tried to do a couple of shows with the podcast expos, and um two years ago when uh when Delta was in Bad Rouge, I was perfect for me. You know, it's only oh yeah, yeah, it's only about two and a half hours. But we went out, took the family, we stayed up there for the whole and I was like, man, yeah. I was like, man, maybe next year next time I'm only gonna do one day. Doing all three days was just a just yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:42

And it's it and it's like one of those, it's a double-edged sword, and like you want to be, you know, on point and you know, smiling every time somebody walks up. Because like that's for me, it's still crazy because like I was one of the guys at the expos. Like I used to go, I mean, we grew up, I'm an hour from Harrisburg for the Great American Outdoor Show. So I grew up, dad would always we'd skip school a day that week and we'd go down to the show, and just like I still like taking my little boy walking around there because there's all kinds of odd stuff to look at. Like, that's just what I'm there for. Something like, oh, I've never seen that before. And I hear that when guys walk up to my booth, like, never would have thought of making that. And like, great idea. Stuff like, and it's like, and with my product, I don't sell it to people. Like, if you don't need a bold handle, like if your handle hasn't fallen out, you don't need my product. I'll tell every single potential buyer, like, you don't need it, but it's better, it's probably better than your factory. There's a lot of nice factory handles now, they're putting bigger, more round handles in, but it doesn't look that good, but you still don't need to spend the money on it. You could go buy, you know, yeah, whatever you want for $55 or don't.

SPEAKER_03 42:55

Yeah, but yeah, I try to sell it. That's how I got you guys was out of necessity. Um, yeah, I love my Winchester. Winchester, you guys listen to love the product. Well, those XS4s, they if you blow on them wrong, they pop off. Uh-huh. And I still had mine. I mean, it it hasn't popped off in the field, but it has at the ski range, and it has like, oh damn, this is my thing.

SPEAKER_04 43:20

Is that it is like I can't complain. It's like, unless Winchester needs to hire an engineer, like I'm available. But I mean, that's not a hard fix either. I just can't believe these companies haven't made a better fix for it, which I'm not. Please don't keep making better work.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

Yeah, and yeah, yours is a good fit. Um, I've got I got the duck the um duckman one, and when it fits in to get it out, I gotta take almost like a flathead and kind of well, usually at wiggle and wiggle and push or wiggle and pull, that'll usually snap them out.

SPEAKER_04 43:51

That's the SX pull, especially. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:55

And uh yeah, but you know, yours when you know when you when when it puts is in you there is an audible click you feel it yeah click in and uh yeah i i still keep mine in a little uh a zip um a zippered uh waterproof bag and i have it in my in my um with my choke tubes just in case you know something ever where i needed to throw it in real quick uh you know yeah if yours broke off or whatnot but yeah stuff happens that's what i tell people like stuff happens yeah and like i said i never love but the reason i bought that one is one it had a matching um choke tube and a matching uh um charging handle but it was a good peace of mind knowing that there was a snugger fit and uh yeah yeah and you know that's the one thing I've heard about the Winchester even when I bought it uh that those charging handles are known to um to just jump out you know from time to time.

SPEAKER_04 44:53

Oh yeah yeah that's what I like one of the only sales push to guys with the SX is at the shows we'll put the factory handle in and if you try to lift the gun off the table with the factory it the gun will not it doesn't come off the table the handle comes out right away but with my handle you can lift the gun up and hold it and it's you know it's holding seven pounds. So yeah it's definitely a a little better fit and we try like all of our handles are machined to the tightest possible tolerances we can get away with and a lot of like a lot of my custom I have more customer complaints that like hey it doesn't fit it won't go in or and it's like well it's really close in tolerance and like we've replaced some that way too you know as many there's losses it's very very rare that a handle gets lost and I maybe I don't hear about enough of them but we try to replace most of what we can especially if it's quick like hey yeah we might have had something out of tolerance but yeah there's gonna be variation in guns too but we try to make them as tight as yeah yeah so as a shotgun accessory company what shotguns you what's your most popular um gun you sell to uh Benelli Frankie 12 gauge platform hands down it is the king everywhere every show doesn't matter what and if you ever want a special edition buy a Benelli and that's probably I'll have the most available for a Benelli 12 gauge platform because me and my friends love our 20s and our 28 gauges but it's like a hundred to one if you you know or not quite that bad but like everybody shoots a 12 gauge still like yeah there's it's a very small group within the group that shoots sub gauges and and is very very serious about it most for sales wise 12 gauge is still king very much so um yeah Benelli 12 Beretta X which covers the A400 and the uh 391 extrema platforms all of those rotating bolt berettas it's very popular the a5 sells very well um for me SX4 12 gauge oh man price stoger 12 is very popular it's like a little sleeper like there's a lot of guys shoot that stoger 12 um nothing wrong with them like hey it's the same operating system as a Benelli pretty much if it fits you shoot it um yeah and the the tristar viper and mossburg sa platform i sell a lot of handles for those just because the factory handles are not very nice like they're sharp and a lot of kids using those so the dad wants to upgrade it quick which is great um but yeah it's that's probably a top five six named have you had anyone ever reach out for like a special like um is an oddball gun that you know oh yeah lots of times yeah um we and we've made a few of those like the Vinci's one that's an oddball um the new Baretta the we'll talk about that in a minute but um we did make we end up making the new the two new or sorry the two 10 gauge handles for the the Remington SP10 and the Browning Gold 10. Yeah um so that that was a popular requin like those handles they those guns need an upgraded handle so we got a few of those oddballs but no and we have like remington um 1100 1187 handles um yeah some other stuff weatherby handles but yeah it's mainly the big ones some of the oddball stuff in the old guns yeah it there's there's too many tolerances just to get something close like it's not horse using hand grenades so like and just the tooling time to make a custom handle is you could go buy a new shotgun for a lot of like if we'd be honest about you know what I mean like if we're not just you know charging half machine rate and research and development time. So we've got a lot of requests but we just aren't going to do something that's not going to sell units. Yeah and the the new Beretta is it's a very similar bolt that we need to make a couple changes for the new AX800 so we'll and we'll we'll make a handle for it probably but I feel like this is going to be their Vinci and my I haven't shot the gun yet but I think it's uglier than anything I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_03 49:36

So me and Stump talked about that the other day and yeah so when I first seen that I was like oh god and uh with with with you know with my tactical background being in in the army and the infantry I looked I was like that looks like a attack and it it it looks like a military tactical you know shotgun over a hunting shotgun. Um and when I seen it on the internet you know that is a ugly looking weird shotgun. Now that being said I seen one in person and held one and it's almost embarrassing. I was I was like man this isn't that bad looking uh I drove over to Texas because it was a gun shop in Texas I had one because there were bright ideas like well I gotta say in that's not my experience in person.

SPEAKER_04 50:33

It's still ugly to me. Now I can't wait to shoot it because I'm sure like functionality it's gonna be excellent. Like if you like my opinion on shotguns I think Benelli makes the best looking shotguns their shape the lines of the well at least the older guns not as big a fan of some of the SP3 stuff but um yeah I think as far as like I love Benelli carrying a Benelli shotgun is my favorite. If I was gonna pick one to shoot it's probably the Breta A400. I love all the gauges um I really like the way they fit me I just like that platform um but this new I I'm sure it's gonna work great I just don't know why they made it look that way it's like we talk about with form and function and like I've been like as soon as since I got this gun I've just been like just all over it and I can't I don't know we're gonna make a handle for it for sure. And I think it feels it's like it's bulky but it's not awkward in hand but like I don't think it's gonna be nice coming out of a layout blind with all the stuff and like yeah if you're hunting in mud there's gonna be mud caked in all various places and nooks and crannies and I it's like it's a gun built for the field but it's the like clay field more than the water fat. I I but that's just my opinion again I hate selling because I love Beretta but like I just don't love that look. It's not my cup of tea.

SPEAKER_03 52:08

It's like the DeLorean of cars like yeah the GTO is great but that's the difference I didn't like the one thing I didn't like about is the QD links or the QDs they have in it. Uh firstly I don't think for for a tactical purposes yes yeah on the old world work guns I have QD Qt links on them for any of the hunting shotguns I've never was like you know what I want to put a QD stab and a ct link right here.

SPEAKER_04 52:41

But maybe it's just like one of those like they put as many features on it as they could and it's like all this stuff has some functionality feature to it which is great but like it's like they ran out of time or money when they got to the looks department of it. And I it's just like for us like and I'm sorry but like we're vain like when it comes to our stuff like you get chastised if you're not wearing matching camo the wrong group like you know what I mean like I'm so like that's what I said like I made this product it is mostly about looking good like it works better it's more comfortable I you can't argue that but it does look great and the customizing the guns like that's all about making it look the way you want that's yeah functionality issue it's like I want it to function well and look cooler than my buddy that's the goal. Yeah well they say you know if you look good and you perform good oh it's all about confidence that's like my fishing background it's like what do you throw uh cream pumpkin senko like I catch all my fish on a green pumpkin senko I'm gonna catch fish on this yeah yeah sure everybody else does too but like when you fish that bait better it's because you're confident in it it's it's yeah for sure yeah no problems with that yeah yeah that it definitely well because I I hunt with an older beretta I have uh um an older eureka that I still hunt with oh yeah I love it um shoulders good shoes still good um but you know when I you know I do love a an A400 um you know like I said they're they're good guns um I shoulder can kind of use the eye shoulder one real good they're a little on the heavier side it wouldn't be my it wouldn't be my quail or pheasant gun but for you know for a duck gun no you know it wouldn't be an issue I you know I really didn't think you could outperform that one until you know obviously I have a shot an ax 400 neither yeah but yeah it it definitely um Retta kind of came you know with all their guns they kind of had um a style and a look you know that went from the old you know the silver mallard to you know to uh that was yeah they could have brought that back and nobody would have complaining now to you know a Eureka one and two to the A300 and the 400 then yeah they kind of went um zero to 60 with this one like I said Vin yeah Banelli did it with the Vinci and it still has a cult following here and there but I just don't I don't see this one like I mean maybe I could be wrong I just don't see it sticking around long term if they keep it looking like that. The skeletonized stuff is neat but it's very tactical like it's just I think I'm afraid how dirty that thing's gonna get yeah on the wrong hunt like that's gonna be caked.

SPEAKER_03 55:32

Yeah so now I have a buddy man um the other co-host of the show he can be on today he hunts a Vinci still yeah and there is there there I can understand why guys like him because there is a unique a uniqueness to them.

SPEAKER_04 55:50

Yeah but I have a buddy that he's hunted with one and it's been all over on his trips like he's been all over the place shooting ducks with that gun and it's either that or it's his 391 that goes on the hunt and like mostly the Vinci went and he tested the first Vinci handles I produced I sent him some and he took some product shots when he was on a hunt in Alaska with that gun. Yeah so yeah I have some old golden eye and Harley photos from his the first prototype. Yeah and then what is it 20 I don't know was it 26 24 uh in December of 24 and I met him through Boykin the Boykin world um and he invited me on a hunt in Alaska and it was a trip like I'd known him for about 10 years at that time and ever since I knew him he was like this is the coolest duck hunt I've ever been on and then he invited me to go and I was like I I said yes and we went up and shot Harleys and Barrows and bluebills and yes it was an incredible like it was everything he said it was gonna be so yeah but that's all like all connections through this like same world was like the hunt and doll like the boykins and the Hunt Tess and the waterfowling and it's just a big connection for me and it's it's like really great that this has stuck as well as it has yeah I I tell everyone you know social media gets a bad platform with waterfowl and we see it every day everyone sees it every day you know in the especially the last two years I'll say it's been real you know the negativity yeah I've got I got strong feelings on that too for sure.

SPEAKER_03 57:40

But I tell everyone if you look at the great screen the the the bigger picture there is more positive that comes out from like the waterfowl community and social media no one ever it doesn't get glorified the negativity gets glow glorified but the the tons of I mean how we have you on the podcast you know through a friend in the waterfowl community you go to Alaska I mean just uh hunting you know Chesapeake Bay like you said everything you know there's so much more I can so oddly and I'm talking about this um I bought my first RMC hat and I didn't even have a call yet because I I was not good enough or gonna spend that much money on a duck call at that point in 20 like 18 it might have been nine I think it was 18 though or even 17 it might have been but I bought an RMC hat in Easton and Stump used to go there and it was one of those like I knew who he was kind of but like I was still like I was going to be a customer and even I bought and my first RMC like CNC cuts which are apparently now very valuable I've got some potholes that people are like just dying to have and I've been very fortunate to get a couple really great calls from Mr.

SPEAKER_04 59:04

Stump. So um I actually just hung a call shelf up and I got my middle shelf all filled up with my RMC. So yeah but yeah so that's an odd thing of like I was a customer at Easton for stump and then like now I know the guy like it's and just all because of this and there are a lot of positive social media but yeah there's a lot of stuff that like man if you just stop you don't have to post everything guys. Yeah like like you might think it's funny but most most people aren't yeah yeah so there's yeah a little bit of self-policing and some of the you know and it's like we were all young once we all did a lot of stupid stuff like we just didn't have the ability to film it and post it right away. Post it yes it's like If tell your friends and they're like you did what now I'm like oh I guess maybe that wasn't such a great idea but now it's like you put it on there and then it gets shared a hundred times and you you can't delete it. It's fair wrenched yeah yeah I've made some great friends through social media that I only know because of like Instagram just talked to a couple of them I got invited to go on a trip to Nebraska with two guys that I only knew through social media. Like hey you want to jump in a van and ride 24 hours with us and I was like sure guys saddle up partner but horror horror movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:30

Yeah that's well we're we're still friends yeah so Boinkins and sub gauges yeah those always interest I didn't know too much about boinkins until I moved and lived on um the east coast and especially the Carolinas for a while um how did you up in Pennsylvania were or were the boinkins kind of like a a big deal or was it something no so we were on the hunt for a bird dog.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:00

I just always dreamed uh I grew up we had an Irish setter when I was a kid like a little kid he never hunted or anything I never but it was just like sporting breeds were always kind of my thing some of my relatives had springer spaniels loved them but I kind of like the duck hunting aspect of things and springers just weren't and just through my searches I was on to like uh we looked at some of the wire hair dogs some of the versatile dogs the their kind of yeah houndy instinct so like I ended up with Boykin spaniels uh found a breeder out in uh Indianapolis area and ended up that was a great choice they have produced some of the best dogs over the last two decades um yeah the boykans act they're supposed to act like a lab um you know the trainability they can be a non-slip retriever meaning sit beside you release on the name um they and my my male was he handled great uh later in life like once and if I'd have been a better trainer he'd have been a really exceptional dog um but yeah he had certain days where he'd handle wonderfully on like long blinds water blinds things like that but um boykins got really popular yeah uh and I my adage with boykins is they all have wires crossed it's just which ones like if you get lucky or unlucky like they need a job they can be very busy and it's like if you you know when you let any high energy dog alone it's gonna destroy something oh yeah yeah they're known to be stock eaters and yeah we grew up with GSPs um yeah same kind of crazy yeah yeah can be yeah they're gonna be my two are very different my male is very type A and just full headed as they come and my female is just soft and bittable and as sweet as they come both absolutely have tons of drive very watery um my female is probably more watery than my male he just got over the swimming part but yeah they're great hunting dogs but like yeah you better have a plan for them they're not one people that just get boykins just to have their cute yeah oh I I advise again I tell everybody that wants to get a hunting dog I said get a lab like yeah I've seen more labs practically train themselves than anything it's like they're just they can be incredible. Yeah so yeah but uh yeah we had two I I did a lot of feas hunting grownups we had I had a Gordon setter for a while we had oh lovely uh you know what I loved it that was probably my best pheasant dog ever the issue I had with it is the upkeep on that dog same with this yeah that's yeah same with yeah that's and that's like one of the things of like I don't take them I limit when they go out in certain places it's like because tick season is real bad and it's like I don't like spend hours picking ticks and like no preventative is that good. Yeah and like they are in the house with us and the kids like so I'm like it's yeah it became a hat but like yeah he sticks his head in a cocklebur bush and you're you've got an hour on your hands untangling that mess. Over there with the the we had the metal combs and you just sit there with the Safari brush and show sheen and everything else on those things. Pam yeah spraying them down with cooking oil but yeah yeah that's that's where yeah having a slick haired dog like a lab or a GSP it's like yeah I can understand that draw for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:38

Yeah the GSP otherwise you have no issue.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:42

Uh they get a little cold sometimes but uh yeah and then we had quite a bit upland bird and uh duck and goose with uh uh a chessy oh yeah yeah we had we had that we would flush feasin up yep yeah and uh honestly both of my dogs are good upland Huck was a really great upland dog he had a great nose on him could trail really well uh he was fun to hunt behind um but yeah lots of I mean there's a I think there's a lot of dogs that can be really versatile it's just like how serious do you need to be about your activity yeah like honestly with upland hunting and keeping them close is your most important thing like having control over the dog and that's like Fanny dog training it all starts at your side if you can't control them beside you you ain't gonna control them out there. Yeah I went to a seminar and like when he said that I was like that's a really good point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:41

So subgau what what got you the sub gauges?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:45

I like the 20 I got the Benelli M220 was my first and I just really liked shooting it. Um shooting pigeons and doves and whatever else and ducks and real honestly that was like uh when boss Shot shells was kind of just coming around. And you still had to like call out the order. And yeah. Yeah. That's really what got it kicked off for me. Um, and then shot, I forget when the next 20 would have been, probably the A400. As it got the SP, and like now the luxury, like we get to have them all to test them and build handles for and all that. But yeah, 28s now, the new uh the A428, they have it in the upland and the still the old Explorer, the two and three quarter. Those are great, great guns. The SP3 and 28. Um, we do make a weighted NCAP for that gun now, the SP3, and it fits the Retay 28s, but um yeah, don't have a review on the Rete 28 yet. I haven't got one to shoot yet.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:52

Yeah, I have I have a buddy who had um the SB320 gauge or 28 gauge, and he came down for TLC and why I shot it. I uh I enjoyed it. Yeah, uh they're just really light. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:07

The recoil was really what kind of um oh like whippy for me, but yeah, yeah. So the the weighted end cap should help slow down the swing a little bit, just give it a little more weight and smooth it out just a touch. But yeah, yeah. The 20 and 28s, like honestly, that's just ammo development stuff. That's I have to give all that credit to Boss, and they led the way on like affordable ammo on you know, sub gauge stuff with the bismuth, and now well, what they're trying to do with copper, which is I don't know, yeah. That's that's hopefully they get through. Yeah, which with boss, like I have no doubts they'll figure something out, and I hope people don't like lose their faith and think the boss was ripping them off. Like they're just you know what I mean, they are doing what they have to do and moving forward and coming up with good. It's like they're working so hard to come up with great products out of work. Like, you know, it just really sucks what's going on with the feds.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:09

Yeah, it it's so weird because Bismuth became I mean, I I told people the price of Bismuth now you might as well just shoot tungsten.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:17

If you've yeah, well, that was maybe a couple years ago, not now, but now tungsten's coming back.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:23

But yeah, um but yeah, it you know it yeah, it definitely went and I thought I was a huge, you know. When I found Bismuth, I was like, yep, this is this is it. And I started shooting Bismuth even before Boss. Um Kent came out Bism. Kent came out with Bismuth about two years before Boss you know um hit came on the Mars scene. Yeah, and um even then it came it didn't even come in in an actual uh 25 shell box, it wasn't you know, like I think 10 round shell boxes, yeah. And um I enjoyed it, and then yeah, it it it well it talks about businesses that it feels like they just took it away from you. Like one year, one season you had it, next season it was uh well.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:08

The nice thing is, yeah, we thought I have all the more I waterfowl hunt, like I'll never run out of business and reasonable boss just. So yeah, I'm I wish I did the same. I wish I wish I yeah, yeah, I boarded at the right time for me because it's like now it's yeah, I got years worth.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:26

Yeah, so and it's so weird with with uh the copper stuff because for me is might be just my ignorance. I'm like, well, everyone's shooting copper plated shells or pellets.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:36

It's something to do with some coding or so. I know I didn't I didn't read all the stuff, but I'm sure like I've met Brandon. Brandon is like he is a mad scientist, he's as crazy as he seems, but all in the good ways. Like, yeah, that guy is he's sharp, like that's for sure. Um, not uh no quit in him. So like I'm sure he's very up to date on what's up, like you know, and he'll have some clarification because it is like May, June now. What June tomorrow? So, like I said, uh you know, we got some time, but yeah, it's uh I mean I can't imagine being in that spot as a business owner. No, yeah, I would not be handling as well as he is, I can tell you that much.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:20

It's because you haven't all that product you're sitting on.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:22

That's yeah, we actually stopped up. Uh they yeah, we spent an evening and took us out to dinner. Yeah, we had a great time with them up in Michigan. We were on our way to a show. Um, so yeah, I got to see him and see the operation, and it's yeah, it's awesome. Great people. So hopefully they pull this one out.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:44

Yeah, I I I think they will. Uh I mean, I think something has to give. Um yeah, they'll figure something out. There's always a fixture of something. Yeah. But well, Brett, it was I enjoyed having you on the thanks for coming on the podcast. I thank you, man. Great appreciate. No, not a problem. But for the viewers that are now intrigued about your product, um, let them know where they can see it and how to get a hold of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:12

Uh, everything is uh grumpyduckco.com for the website, Instagram and Facebook should be under Grumpy Duck Co. as well. Uh, all the products should be listed. If it's in stock, it ships typically same day or next. Uh yeah, UPS or USPS options, but online. Uh, we don't do call and orders, anything like that. Uh, custom gun work will be coming. We'll have an online brochure linked somewhere from the store. But all new product photos are coming. Uh, we got a guy in here working on that now. So, yeah, lots of new stuff, but everything's grumpy.co.com. Yeah. And yeah, give us a shout.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:52

Well, yeah. Yeah. Thank you for coming on and thank you for sharing everything your story. But for the viewers, hey, thank you guys for tuning in. Go check out his um charger handles. Um, I'm already intrigued. I'm just looking at some of some new ones I'm thinking about picking up now. But um, always thanks for listening. Like our friend Chris says, let Donald not fail.