State Of Waterfowl

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

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SPEAKER_08 1:19

We have today what I like to call the state of waterfowl, right? So we have a representative from each flyway that's well respected in the flyway and who's no stranger to this show. So I'm gonna introduce you guys. You guys can kind of introduce yourselves. Well, I'm gonna go from the Atlantic flyway all the way to my home, my home flyway of the Pacific. So in the Atlantic flyway, we have Dave Barlett. Dave, um, let us know where you're from. Uh Southern Maine. Southern Maine. Then in the Mississippi flyway, we have no stranger. We have Roland Cortez. How are you doing today, Roland?

SPEAKER_03 2:02

I'm doing fine, fellas. How y'all? My name's Roland Carcasses. I'm from Chimanola, Louisiana.

SPEAKER_08 2:07

From the central flyway, we have no strangers in the waterfowl community. We have Diego Sanchez. Hey Diego, how are you doing today? Or Domingo, my Domingo Sanchez.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

You're good. You're good. Uh doing good. So yeah, I'm from central Kansas. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:24

And then from my home state, but now relocate up to Washington, we have Gus Laws. Gus, how are you doing today? Doing great, man. Thanks for having me on. And no problem. So, guys, oh, for this podcast, we're we um we wanted to have everyone on because it's the end of the season. We're kind of in the in the midway. Next season's getting ready to come up. But you know, we kind of noticed this year that no stranger to anything online or anything that, you know, there is a um, there's a lot of things going on in the waterfowl community. A lot like, I mean, if you guys, you know, unless you've been living in a barn and under a rock and under a tractor, um, you guys all see it all the time. You know, we try not to pay attention to some of it, but some of it, I have a feeling that it it needed to be paid attention to and kind of need to be talked to in a civil setting with like-minded people that that you know that waterfowl hunt and they're you know, just you know your your everyday waterfowlers. Um so I want to kick this episode off with you know, I don't know how many guys hunt out of state of their home states or whatnot, or even uh Canada. I I know Roland, have you hunting Canada before?

SPEAKER_03 3:45

No, I've never been up there.

SPEAKER_08 3:47

Uh Domingo, have you hunting Canada before?

SPEAKER_02 3:50

I have not. Um something that's interested me a little bit, but yeah, I've just never been.

SPEAKER_08 3:56

Yeah, I don't know, Gus or uh Dave, you guys ever hunted Canada before?

SPEAKER_01 4:01

My dad did years ago. Yeah, but I haven't.

SPEAKER_08 4:04

Yeah, so I mean, we see a lot, you know, it's happened in Canada and it's happening now. I mean, it's happening in Kansas and in um really start off in um what do you call it in um the great state of Arkansas is this you know this big thing between public land and and private land hunters, and you know, some of these rule changes, and even to the point where now we're kind of limiting people on you know where we hunt and how many times get an outsider hunt or whatnot. Um I kind of want you to start off this because I know I know there is some rules in Kansas, and I know you hunt a lot of public in Kansas. So, you know, what's your thought about this topic?

SPEAKER_02 4:53

Yeah, I I think there were rule proposals. I don't think any of them actually got pushed through, but yeah, that was to limit the you know the non-residents. Uh, I think it it fell through, so it didn't get passed, but I I think there is one that did get passed in Oklahoma. I think that's on public lands. Um, I don't know the exact rules that are in Oklahoma, but uh fortunately for the guys that you know want to come hunt Kansas, I I really don't believe that one passed in Kansas. So I know I I believe it was the vote was on it this summer sometime. So I think it didn't go through.

SPEAKER_08 5:28

I mean, for some guy that hunts Kansas and knows that that was, you know, that's a rule that was coming up on the public land side. What's your thought about you know, you kind of like your thought about that?

SPEAKER_02 5:39

Uh really years past, it seems like I've seen a lot more, you know, out of state pressure than I did this year. This year it didn't seem like there was too many out-of-staters. We still ran into quite a few of them, but I mean, we had good water this year, so that helped, at least on my side of the state. I guess on the east side of the state it was pretty dry. So I know those guys probably struggled at times, but we had a lot of water, so I'm sure it spread people out. Um, and yeah, we didn't have really, you know, I know I've never had really conflict with out of staters, you know. I just talked to them, see what there's some of them come off because I'm staying off off ish, but you know, willing to talk to anybody and you know, see what the good word is.

SPEAKER_08 6:18

So like like when the when the rule was proposed, was it it was just for public land or was it for private land also?

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Or um I both I want to say it was for public land, and it was gonna be like I think they could only hunt like certain days of the week, like three or four days out of the week. Uh I can't remember. I think maybe like Sunday through Wednesday or something, something like that.

SPEAKER_08 6:43

Yeah, so if I I know Roland, you've hunted in Arkansas. We both hunted in Arkansas quite a bit, and none of us are residents of Arkansas. Uh, I've never hunted public land in Arkansas. Um, but I mean, what's your thought about the the out of you know, the public land versus the private land and the outer staters and you know, just limiting hunters?

SPEAKER_03 7:06

You know, when it comes to you know public access, we all pay money, man. We all pay our taxes to hunt. You know, these WMAs and these um NW, NWRs, you know, so I don't know what a state can do to limit non-resident hunters other than making the license more expensive. You know, um I think Arkansas went to what, two, a thirty day you can only hunt public land for thirty days?

SPEAKER_08 7:36

Yeah, I think it's yeah, fifteen and fifteen.

SPEAKER_03 7:39

I don't hunt public land much there anymore, but I mean, back in the gap we used to hunt in Obama, the white, um, the cash, all that, but um even then, you know, um they had a lot of people. Yeah. Uh I wanna s I wanna say at that time you can only hunt. It was like three ten day periods, I think, or or two ten day periods. But we always want you know, with the white of the cast once we get on B WMA, but you know, it it's a resource for all of us. I I don't know how a state can tell us not to go there other than by going to a draw system or limiting us to how many things we can stay in the state.

SPEAKER_08 8:27

Yeah. It it it's weird that, you know, when people say I've I've heard the arguments of oh, it's you know, it's it's trying to put less pressure on the resource or whatnot. But I guess I can't um I can't, you know, necessarily say for uh Kansas or Oklahoma or Nebraska, but I have hunted in Arnold, Arkansas's the one state that I've hunted in that does limit. Um I don't understand how I can what what gets me is that if we're limiting people on you know to protect the resource, but you're allowing the out of staters to still go buy leases or go to the you know, and you're not limiting them on the private land, you know, sector. Um that, you know, that's what that will kind of that's always kind of got me on that one. Uh I don't know what you guys' uh view thoughts are on that, where you know, if I pay extra money, I can have a free range on a lease or with a guys that butts up against buying meter or or um the cash on a uh Dave or that's uh that's uh I don't know, it's it's kind of a hunting, it's becoming a rich man's game.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

Like people probably said that and been saying that for you know 30 or 40 years, I'm sure, but it it definitely is. Um you know, just there's certain there's a lot of rules that on public you can't do things on public that you can do on private. Um, like in Kansas, it's not duck hunting, but deer hunting, we can't run trail cameras on private or public. Yeah. Which I think is a silly rule, but you know, the same thing for like waterfowl stuff, like you're saying, is you know, you you can hunt seven days a week as long as the season's open if you have a lease. But then, you know, a poor guy that can't afford a lease, he can't go duck hunting if he wants to, you know, let's like let's say he lives close to like in Oklahoma and he can just jump across the border and go to Arkansas, you know, where it's only maybe a couple hour drive. You know, he can't go hunt Arkansas because it's you know, he's a non-resident.

SPEAKER_08 10:36

Yeah. But still pays the same Pitt and Robinson tax, though. Yeah. Yep. Dave, I know in the land, you guys don't have any issues like that that I know of.

SPEAKER_06 10:46

No, I mean, we're we're we're so scattered that you won't even run into anybody like burnt hunting. Um yeah, maybe I the amount of times I went last year, I didn't see a single person burnt hunt besides the guys I went with.

SPEAKER_08 11:04

And are you guys are you hunting public or uh private? Both. Both.

SPEAKER_05 11:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 11:11

On the public, is it is it like refuges or big lakes?

SPEAKER_06 11:15

It's um public would be like the conservation land.

SPEAKER_07 11:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:20

So you don't have to ask, but you always ask, be good nature. But like I say, you go up one weekend, you won't see a soul, you won't hear a gunshot sound as what you've been shooting. Other weekends it sounds like a war zone. Yeah. But we we have no issue with that up here.

SPEAKER_07 11:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 11:42

Now, Gus, I know me and you grew up in with the things that most people call sweat lines that a lot of people don't know of or don't, you know, never really heard those terms before. But you've all meant me and you both had um clubs that were actually kind of close to each other growing up. You know, so from a guy who's hunted or grew up hunting private and the public, what do you think about like some of these rules? And like, you know, you know, being from California, would you think it will, you know, with the competition it is to even get on our refuges, would you even think that's something? I mean, do we did you see a lot of out of staters coming to California trying to hunt refuges?

SPEAKER_01 12:22

When I was down there, we we didn't really have a lot of out of staters. We had a lot of people from Southern California. Uh, it seemed like the last few years I was down there, especially SAC Refuge, Delivan, Calusa, those were like the main ones I hunted. It just seemed like we had more people from Southern California, which is great. I mean, you know, more power to you, and you know, that eight to 10 hour drive from LA. I mean, hey, you know, if you can do it, you can do it. But I don't know, it just seemed like the pressure just it was always it had just gone to where, you know, it seemed like, you know, any day of the week, even on a Wednesday, if I wanted to go, I could, you know, walk on pretty good. And it just seemed the last few years, it was like I'd see 100, maybe 120 trucks.

SPEAKER_08 13:14

Yeah. And I know depending on what refuge you are, you know. That was that sack, I should say. I should clarify that one. Well, yeah, but but there's different um, because some of those refugees have blinds that you have to draw, then they have like the the free roam, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So with that, you know, you have your blinds at these refuges where if you do draw a reservation, you get a pick of a blind, and that's your blind for the day. Um, and then you have what's called free roam. So, what free roam is you say, you know, you want to hunt east or west side, and that's it. So you have this you know section of land that you can hunt anywhere, and you know, if the birds aren't working in your hole, you just go to the next one until you figure out where they're going to, and you kind of have to I call it combat hunting because you'll have guys set up 50, 80 yards around you. Um, but that's probably some of the funnest hunting because that really I think shows who you are as a hunter and working birds and trying to finish them.

SPEAKER_08 14:19

Yeah. Do you see less pressure on like the draw-only um the blinds?

SPEAKER_01 14:28

I do. Uh it depends. I think it's weather dependent, honestly, because I feel like when we do get those weather days, you know, south wind and rains or those north winds, I think the pits do get hammered a little more. Um, but that's also because you'll get guys that you know, you'll have a group of guys that go out and they want to shoot their ducks, they'll shoot their ducks, and then all of a sudden they'll be covered in snow geese for like three hours and they'll get out of there, and then you'll get someone who wants to go hunt geese, and then they'll go out there and sit all afternoon and go for their limits.

SPEAKER_08 15:01

Yeah. So if you can explain to the viewers, because California refugees, they were kind of weird. There's usually a um not a quota, but a limit of how many people can come on and come off.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Yeah, so there is a quota per refuge, and what that means is you know, they can only allow so many parties out there, uh, given the water situation. So I know Sacramento, because Sacramento was one that I primarily hunted because it was close proximity to my hunt club. Um, you know, early in the season, there'd be a quota of like, you know, 200 people at a time. And then it'd go up to like, I think 300 or something. And um, but that didn't mean that you know you'd have an additional hundred people there waiting in a sweat line, waiting to get a walk-on potentially. And usually they try to keep that quota up there, but it all is dependent on the pressure, time of the year, water availability, and also you know, what are people bringing in?

SPEAKER_07 16:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 16:11

Now I'm gonna kind of come back, you know, you know, this first you know, topic is kind of a longer topic, and like you know, when you guys seen me, we I was talking about you know, the private land, the public land, and then the clubs and guide services. I know with um me and you know, me and uh Gus, California seems to have like a bigger when I when I finally moved out of California and you know kind of traveled all over the US. I thought as an 18-year-old kid that everywhere across the US duck hunted the same, right? Because I kind of you know, I left California in 2004. There wasn't really much of YouTube or whatnot. Anything you wanted to watch was on a Saturday morning on the outdoors channel or a VHS cassette. So I didn't, I thought a lot of guys hunted it. There was there was duck clubs just all over the place, kind of was like in California. Um for you guys, you know, hunting on these other flyaways, you know, you guys coming up growing up, was there like like a a club type uh atmosphere type scene, or was it just all private leases type deals if guys had them?

SPEAKER_03 17:28

How'd you go rolling? I mean, growing up, I mean, we had leased land. Um you can say it was a duck club, but you know, it was just family members. That pretty much hunted it, but we used it for more than the duck hunting, you know, we did hunted on it. Uh we trapped on it, called validated on it, so it was a multi-cast, but we never really called it a hunting club, you know, we just called it the lease of the camp.

SPEAKER_07 17:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:57

But in in in gener in all general, it was technically a a club, you know.

SPEAKER_08 18:02

Yeah. Well, all your members were usually family members of it or part of the family. Yeah, pretty much.

SPEAKER_03 18:07

It was fa it was family members and friends. One person which was my grandfather, he paid the lease for it.

SPEAKER_07 18:13

So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

And we just hunted there. But you know, my family made you know money on the land, so that's why we were there for hunting was just something we did actually, you know.

SPEAKER_08 18:24

Yeah. Damigo, did you did you guys in Kansas have club type deals or was it just leases?

SPEAKER_02 18:29

No, uh, there might be some clubs on more like the eastern side of the state where I'm at. It's just it's all just uh public stuff. And then I there I'm sure there's a few leases. Nowadays, the leases like seems like everything's leased. Um Kansas big deer country, so you know, a lot of that gets leased up, and if it has an adjacent field, they're not gonna let you go hunt on it. Uh and then, you know, a lot of guides started leasing stuff up. So really private ground anymore, it's almost impossible to get on unless you know a guy or you lease it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 19:03

Dave, how how how was there a big club scene in the in the world?

SPEAKER_06 19:09

Well, honestly, when when you guys started throwing around that terminology, I never even heard of it before. Yeah. I mean, I think the closest one that I knew of was in the Carolinas, and that was that's the closest.

SPEAKER_08 19:21

Yeah, that's probably what a 10-hour drive at least.

SPEAKER_06 19:25

Uh yeah, pretty close to it. But yeah, it's either private, like just cornfields, hay fields, you'd ask permission to hunt it, public land, but we I've never even heard of a hunt club or leasing land to hunt it.

SPEAKER_08 19:41

Yeah. And Gus, can uh for the viewers, uh, they've heard me talk about it, but I kind of wanted to hear somebody else talk about it. Um, can you kind of explain like the California club scene?

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Sure. So, I mean, you got, I mean, you know, where you and I kind of grew up hunting, it was, you know, you got Lambertville area, which has been around for a long time, and that's kind of like one of the last real places. And then if you go a little more like southeast towards the Buttes, you got the Butte Sink, which is probably the most historic area for duck clubs, and that's where you know, you think of California duck hunting and waterfowl hunting, you think of the butte sink. Um, those guys are usually the higher-end duck clubs. Um, usually those are managed with caretakers, you know, they have guides that will take them out, and you know, they're very regulated, uh, pressure driven. Where I call Lambertville, kind of more like the Wild West. Um, you know, you have some properties where the guys have rules and you know, they may have shoot days three days a week, and then you got other clubs where they allow their members to hunt every single day.

SPEAKER_08 21:03

Yeah. I know uh you know, we're talking you the other day, we're talking about the clubs. I mean uh some of the bigger clubs that I was in was Thule Bell, that was a marsh club out there in the um Benicia, right? Yeah, Benicia. It was it was part of the um the Grizzly Island or Susian Bay um uh refuge system, kind of around that area, and then Lamberville with Moon Lake, and then Richmond Hunting Club, which for a lot of people was kind of like a bigger club with like little side light clubs all over the place up in northern California. But you hear, you know, you hear about California and you hear about the hunting, you hear all the you know, kind of of of the ups and downs in the West Coast. Do and you know, we hear you know the seven bird limits, the seven malers, the ten specs uh up in Oregon, you can shoot 15 spec limits. Do you think Like that. You know, these clubs being there's clubs that were from the 1800s, like Tully Bell.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

Do you think the club scene helped California waterfowl hunting? Or do you think it was a um a negative type deal in in California?

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Ooh, that's a good one. Um, I like to think a little bit of both. So I think in a way it was negative in the sense of it did change a little bit in how our birds were fly using their flyways. Um, so for example, back in the day at my old club, you know, we used to see our birds, they'd go north to south. And that's just how they operated. And I could, you know, every single day know exactly they're gonna come this direction or this direction, and they're gonna go this way, or vice versa. Um, I'd say the last 10 years I noticed that they were shifting more of like an east to west. And it didn't click in my head until you know later on that you know, they were going to these bigger clubs and to the into the close zone, obviously, at SAC. And this was their only real way of flying around due to our pressure, and that really had an effect on our birds and just me figuring out, you know, when and how they were gonna work that day. But I think it also was a positive in the sense of it really shows, and this is just coming from someone who had a duck club and we took pride in managing and you know doing stuff for the ducks, is that um it really shows, you know, if your farming practices are good and you are able to utilize certain rules and you know pressure your spots, um, you know, you're gonna hold more birds and you're gonna have more consistent shoots. Um, whether it's a low water year, high water year, uh bad hatch year, whatever it is, you're still gonna be able to hold some birds given your weather conditions.

SPEAKER_08 24:19

Yeah. And for you know, for for you uh the rest of you guys, I know you know we in Arkansas we've heard and seen some clubs and all that, but what's your guys' opinion on some of these uh bigger duck clubs? Not necessarily guiding. Do you think some of these bigger duck clubs are are a positive for the fly some of these flyaways, or do you guys think it's kind of a deterrent and negative look um on the flyaways and has a negative um uh a negative effect on some of the some of the areas that do have clubs and where uh where y'all hunt or could hunt if your clubs were in your areas if you want to leave that one off.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

In a way I think it's it's beneficial to get you know kids out hunting, get people that don't normally hunt. You know, get into a duck club. Uh most duck clubs around my house are pretty much marsh or some type of swamp, so you can't really do much habitat enhancement other than you know, put wheels in to keep water and and um make sure salt water doesn't get in the marsh and and um you can kind of manage it. You know, kinda like that, making sure your your coon tail and your highs and um stay good, but you know, other places, you know, it's mostly ag and you can do a lot more on you know private ground than you can on public.

SPEAKER_08 25:53

Yeah. Domingo, do you have any any insight on that?

SPEAKER_02 25:58

Uh I I don't know. It's it's hard to say. I mean, I know a lot of guys are complaining in the kind of Arkansas area, maybe the some of the Louisiana stuff about, you know, the clubs and the flooded corn. Uh I really had to weigh in, we we need a real winter. This winter, I it was super mild for the most part. I think whenever we finally did get some weather, it seemed like people were just hammering the ducks. Um, but you know, when it's 60 degrees through all of November and doesn't ever freeze in December, it ducks not gonna migrate. That's I mean, that's my opinion. But when when it did get cold finally, you know, whatever in January, there's a lot of people had good a good season. So um as far as like the clubs being a negative impact, I don't I don't know that it necessarily it's a negative impact. Um it probably does help the ducks out a little bit, but if there's no weather, they're not gonna migrate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 26:58

Yeah. Dave, do you have any? I mean, I know the clubs, you know, the club aspect is so so foreign.

SPEAKER_06 27:06

I mean, I I really can't put no insight on it. I've never I've never experienced it, so I can't give an opinion on it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_08 27:14

Yeah, I get it. Yeah, I mean, that's probably the biggest, like what I won't say was a culture shock for me leaving like the like the Pacific flyway, where it was like the hunting club aspect was like, you know, and I I guess it was almost comparing it to the guys in Katahula, whether that was my granddad's granddad's, you know, blind out in the lake, or you know, out there in Lake Matamuski when I would hunt uh when I was hunting in North Carolina. Um, you know, that was or or even like real foot. You know, we hear the stories about you know the real foot blinds of you know going back generations and generations. That was kind of like comparable to what the the California you know club clubs were. Um yeah, I I just just you know talking to people outside of that flyway. Uh it always always really that part always really interested me. Then you have the last part of the of our first topic is guide services. Uh I know some of us have guided, some of us gone on guided huts. Um, and we'll say the last 20 years. Have you seen the guide services have a negative effect on anyone's flyway? And especially, you know, with the social media boom and everyone, y'all kind of like I don't want to say that everyone wants to be a guide or everyone, you know, you know, even on some of these little these little I call these fly by fly by night guide services, but even from like the biggest guide service down to you know your little mom and pop ones, do you guys think they have that big of a negative effect on the flyaways and duck hunting? Um, Dave, I'll let you leave this one off.

SPEAKER_06 28:59

I mean, up here, I I can't say they have a negative impact. I think they have a positive impact. You you have people who've never been hunting that can learn from the guides, and then you have the people who can't really get around very well, rely on the guides, and the guides can get the those people on birds and have a successful hunt. But their social media up here, it's not like, oh, we got this amount of birds here, we got this amount of birds here. It's not like you see piles of birds. I've I've seen some on the social media, and I'm like, that's a lot of birds. And I see 15 people hunting these geese and ducks. I'm like, must be nice.

SPEAKER_08 29:46

Yeah, because you're hunting mainly dry or pawholes uh up there in the main area.

SPEAKER_06 29:53

Um the guides mostly seem to hunt the the sea ducks. But we do we do see some guides out doing the doing geese in dry fields and some in pawholes, but I don't see where it's a negative impact if uh in Maine and New Ham Hampshire. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:15

Roll, I'm gonna I'm I'm I'm gonna take you next on this one. You know, I I I've been a duck guide man for I don't know, almost thirty years now. You know, um I got into because what I like to do, I like to duck hunt. But as far as it being a negative impact, I mean I've taken people who have never hunted before in their life into people that hunt every day. Um, guide services, some of the higher end ones, you know, they do a lot of property management like we do. You know, if if you hunt around us, I'm sure you catch ducks off of us, which I know they do. Um we have several big duck clubs around us that manage just like we do and we help each other. Um I I can't see, you know, duck a duck guy service being a negative impact. It brings um money to the towns and the cities around it. You know, everybody makes money off of it around. I mean, there's like a stuff guard. I mean they may have a lot of guy services up there, but it brings money to the town stuff guard, and as much as I got it up there. Um the day after duck season closes, it's a ghost town besides snow goose hunters coming in, but you have a lot more duck hunters come to study than snow goose hunters. Um, you know, um hunters show up in Sugar usually a day or two before the season opens. And after that, I mean the whole the rest of the year it's a ghost time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 31:56

Domingo, do you I I know you um not that I know, I don't think you've ever guided. I know I know you've been asked a lot too guys.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

I've seen you get you know some people ask what's your I have I have a little I have a little bit around here um for one of the fairly local guys, it's about an hour away. He'll you know if he gets in a pitch sometimes, like a guy comes up sick or something or has a family emergency, I'll he'll hit me up and I'll go, you know, sub in for a bit. Uh but I hear the the guides, it's it's kind of taken away a lot of the access because obviously the farmers are struggling because the crops aren't worth what they should be. Um, so the farmers are you know subsidizing a little bit of their money with you know, there's there has been a lot of you know the fly by night operations come through Kansas and you know I don't I don't know that there's very many left, but you know they offer the farmers money, you know, and then guys like me, I'm not gonna pay, you know, you know, a thousand dollars for a field for a weekend or whatever, because that just doesn't make sense. Um, but and then you have the fly by night, the true fly by night operations just come in there, the farmer finds out they're in there with 12 guys retting up their field, and then he won't let anybody else ever get on there again. You know, so if at here it's been a negative impact. Um, some of the some of the long-standing, you know, guide services around here, they're fine, they're great. Like I said, I I helped my friend out. Um, but some of those other ones left probably a lot of sour farmers out there, and you know, it just it really killed the amount of property that you know most average guys are gonna get onto. So it's been a bit of a negative.

SPEAKER_08 33:43

Yeah. And for Gus, I mean, meaning you have some of the same friends that still got in California. Oh, I know one of our good buddies has gone out of it. Um I know Bronson, which I mean everyone knows Bronson. Uh he's yeah, I know he took this kind of the same career path you're taking now.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

Um yep, I I think he's yeah, I think he just got picked up in Napa. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 34:08

That's a good place to get picked up at. Line country, baby. Yeah. Um, but what do you think about the guide services? You know, because growing up, I don't remember a ton of guide services out of California in the 90s, except the two or three big ones up up and around the Calusa and uh Delvin area, but they uh from what I've heard, they they pretty they've blown up pretty big.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Yeah, uh I'd say the last few years, um, the guide scene in California, in my opinion, uh has gone, in my opinion, it's kind of uh joke. That's the only real word I can put it as. Um and I did some guiding when I was in college, you know, the typical 18, 19, 20-year-old. I helped a gentleman out on Gridley doing snow goose hunting, and it was fun. Loved it, it was great. He's still a long-standing outfit that I still think is probably one of the best ops out there. Um, but I think overall the scene of it is a joke because, and I can only speak for how it is in California. I think there's something about a California guy who, when you look at our regulations, you know, you get about 110-day season. You kind of already you know said it, you know, we have a seven bird mallard limit, um, 10 specklebelly limit, 20 white goose limit. We have arguably most diverse waterfowl species anywhere in the United States. Um, you know, it's very easy for someone to be like, well, I want to go guide. Well, unfortunately, you know, there's a lot more to the job. And, you know, Roland and Domingo and you know, Bronson even can say, you know, it's more than just going out to a flooded rice field with a thousand decoys and you know, just okay, well, here you go. You know, it's a lot of work and you gotta really know that spot, know where they're what they're doing, when they're doing it. And, you know, you can't just, you know, when they're not willing to work or play nice, you can't just be like, well, that's it. It's like, no, you gotta be in the truck figuring out where they're at and what they're doing.

SPEAKER_08 36:25

Do you think for uh I mean you probably kind of already answered, but for the pressure and just for the overall duck hunting culture, do you think the guide service the upflux and guide service in California and just along the Pacific Fly has had a uh negative effect?

SPEAKER_01 36:43

I I would I would probably say so. And I only say that because uh when I had when my family had our club, and you know, we you know, my I can tell you my mom and dad, you know, they took very good pride in our property. I take pride in our property. Um fact, so much I actually ended up I wanted to go hunt public half the time because I almost felt like I was a little entitled. So I made myself go hunt public to really, you know, make myself, you know, be humble of where I came from. But it seemed like the last few years I was down there, it just seemed like the hunting clubs and the culture of it changed. Um, when I was growing up, most guys, you know, we'd hunt three days a week, you know, maybe four if we had a you know a storm or a windy day. Uh it just seemed like the last few years, it was, you know, I could go up to Lambertville any day of the week and I could pick out 30, 40 trucks. And usually back in the day, I'd see maybe like two.

SPEAKER_03 37:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 37:55

Do you think it was unlike kind of like um Roland said, do you think the economy of California, do you think it's it's helped some of those small? Did those extra, I mean, a couple guide services help the economy at all? I know it's so weird because there is all those clubs that you know, some of those clubs are the are the you know, like you go to Princeton, besides rice farming, duck clubs are what keeps that town in business.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Exactly. Um it's so hard to say. I I'm gonna go with yes, just because you know, there are, like you said, Princeton and a lot more smaller towns like Calusa and those areas where, you know, they are farming towns, the rice farming towns. And while yes, you do have those duck clubs, I do think some of those guide services that are in those areas, they do provide more income for those areas because they're able to bring more money into the town so they're able to flourish more. And also, you know, I mean, we have our extended goose season, so you know, we're pretty consistent throughout the year, and then you know, we have our five-day leap season, and most guys typically hunt three or four out of those five days, so those towns are getting extra money because hey, you know, we're gonna go kill geese for four or five days, and there you go.

SPEAKER_08 39:23

Yeah. Now, the final but one one before we move on to the our next topic would be like motion decoys. Me and Roland had a pretty good discussion, and I had a pretty good discussion with some guys on you know the good old Facebook about this, and they you know, they were talking about um crippling birds, right? And you know, to me, there is that is like a broad spectrum of there's a lot of reasons why I see birds get crippled and where for me personally where I see birds get crippled, but they were really kind of honing in on like you know that these guide services are crippling. I mean, I think he used you know, Roland, if you could correct me, he they used the word of like 60% of birds across the US and North America get crippled because of guide services and uh over you know putting 15, 20 guys in the blind and stuff like that. And you know, they were saying it for ducks, which I don't well, I've never seen down here in Louisiana, Arkansas, where I've the two states I have guided in, I never see where we put that many people in flooded ag or ducks. I know it does happen for some geese and stuff, but do you think you know we all know crippling, you know, everyone it happens, but I believe 90% of hunters are kind of you know do their best and not, but do you think that's a a uh onus that the guide services take on the chin, or do you think that you know there's more to that where you know just as waterfowl hunters, I don't like I was discussing it with them. I was like, for me, I see most of my crippling and me personally lose most of my birds on public land in marsh or in swamp or in big lakes, or I see it more with um pass shooting or sky blasting on the public areas. For me, I was I got kind of discussed things like her when we, you know, the guides, you know, our more of our money comes from comes from our tips, and you do your more tips come from more birds that you harvest, you know, and you and you recover. Uh, if you're out there, you know, losing birds, your tips start going away. Do you guys think it is like either that that is an influx because of guiding, or just you know, the culture of more chokes, pass shooting, um, you know, the ammo, you know, people you know say we're making ammo that can shoot further. Uh, is it almost on the privatized business side of it, or is it just on general hunting? Um I'm gonna roll and start off with this one because you I know you're hot in that debate as well.

SPEAKER_03 42:16

It's just the general public, man. I mean, triple I mean cripples happen no matter what you do, hunting dumbs. I mean, but the biggest thing is to try to finish birds. I mean, me being a guide, I'm not gonna get up in the morning and say I'm gonna shoot ducks in any yard. I mean, that's no fun. I want my birds as close as possible. I want to finish my bird. And in all my years, I mean, like like we talked about this the other day. I mean, exactly how many birds do you think are crippled in a season? You know, we run through dogs, we try to we do our best to get every cripple that we can find. You know, we spend adequate time looking for it. I I don't know if I can put an exact number, but I know it's not that many. You know, triple even though we run in um, you know, march all sometimes um some type of bag, the graph is pretty tall. So yes, we do have some triples that we can't find or they sold off pretty far, you know, but we try to, you know, finish birds and get them as close as possible to eliminate that problem. But meaning that we shoot shotguns, I mean it happens. But to say that guide service uh have more cripples, I I I I don't see that because when you hunt public land, people are completely forgotten. They shoot them a mile high. I mean, you're close enough to that person you triple the bird, you may end up shooting that cripple. I mean, I've seen that happen numerous times. You know, uh hunting public land.

SPEAKER_08 44:00

Domingo, um I mean, kind of you answer this next because you have had an influx of out of staters and guide services and on public. What's your thought about that?

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Yeah, I mean it's I I'm sure it's probably even across the board. It's just ducks are tough and they're smart. I mean, depending on, you know, whether you're hunting public or guiding. Like we hunted one day this year in some sick stuff, and I had a I have an old dog and I have a dog who's a pup that he's trying to train up. And I didn't feel like in this stuff I could bring either one of them because the old dog, she just hunted the day before, and she's got a one good hunt in her, you know, and then she starts whimping around. So, you know, we had a day where we lost a few because it was just we would as soon as we were done shooting, we would run out there. Like I would be hoofing it out there right to where that bird fell, and it was just thick. And those birds, once they hit that thick stuff, they put their head down. And I mean, you can do your dangest. And you know, I I finished birds. We were, you know, our long shot that day was probably 35 yards, and it was just you try to get on them now, but the the ducks are smart. So I think it's just 50-50 across the board. And you know, terrain does dictate whether you lose more birds, because out on the lake, we're we lose probably zero birds, because you know, if a dog can't get a cripple, we just you know, call them off and go get the boat, just boat them down. Uh so if you're you know, if you're a guided on stuff like that, it's probably super easy to get your birds. But when you're hunting thick marsh or maybe even cornfields, the cornfields, those those ducks will start waddling away if you're not, you know, if they got any life left into them. And next thing you know, they waddled 50 yards away, and you see them flapping down there, and you're like, how'd it get all the way over there? But I'd say it's even across the board.

SPEAKER_03 45:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 45:47

Now, Dave, you you uh up in Maine are hunting some tough birds.

SPEAKER_03 45:54

What's your thought on it? Hey Dave, you're so mute.

SPEAKER_06 46:03

Yeah, I'm gonna say it's I'm gonna agree with everybody it's 50-50. I mean, if we have one running, we're chasing right after it. We don't we don't let them get too far. The fields that we hunt, we have a tree line 20 yards behind us. If they get in behind there, that's gone. That bird's gone forever. You ain't finding that bird.

SPEAKER_07 46:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 46:24

But as soon as that bird drops and it's running, we're running right after it.

SPEAKER_08 46:29

Yeah. And again, I said I know it's hard for you because you you don't see that many um guide services around you, or they the guys mainly hunt um what do you call it? Um, for the sea ducks, which that's completely different ball game. Um, those sea ducts are like they're bulletproof damn near.

SPEAKER_05 46:49

Oh yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 46:51

Yeah. Um and then for old Gus, I mean, I know back in the clubs, I I don't remember losing that many just because we did finish them in bigger decoy spreads. I mean, do you see the guide services? I mean, are do you think they're adding that much to the crippled birds?

SPEAKER_01 47:13

I have to say with everybody, it's like 50-50. Um, you know, if we're talking the club scene, uh, like you said, you know, we we would fish birds pretty consistent, you know, within 35, 30 yards. Um with the guides and the guys that I only know who are good guides, you know, they do their very best to work birds within that 30 to 35 mark. And after that, you know, it's it's really just if you kill them, you kill them. I know Bronson, he has a good dog. And I know a few of my other buddies they have really good dogs. I have a good dog. Um, but you know, kind of like what Domingo was saying, you know, if you're hunting like some marsh or some corn or anything where, you know, they can get underneath and get away. Um, I even remember a few times at my own club, you know, where we'd shoot some birds and I'd mark exactly where it's at, send my dog out, and you know, I'd be like, Where's the duck? It's gone. And then I'd go search for it for two hours and would not catch a whiff of it. Um, so you know, it just goes to show you that, you know, when they're in that mode, they are going to find any way to get out of there.

SPEAKER_08 48:30

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know you know one of the discussions part was when he when me and him discuss with, you know, guide service home with more bigger, you know, with the you know these bigger groups. And you've seen on online uh 20, 30 people in an A-frame or in um in layout blinds. I just don't see it. I haven't personally seen the you know the big yeah, I seen that most more mainly in the goose world. Um I don't really see too much in the duck world, especially with flooded ag. Louisiana, where the only three states I've hunted flooded ag in uh just because the pit restrictions, right? Most of those pits can only hold um so much. Yeah, um, yeah, I did a lot. I hunted flooded ag and um in Nebraska, and those did have bigger pits, but I think that was more for uh leg room and comfort. I think we only hunted six people in that whole meeting you probably fit. It felt like you could probably fit a whole football team in there. Yeah, but yeah. So to go next on the on on our big topic of you know discussions. I didn't see too many this thing, this discussion didn't pop up too much this this year, but in previous years it um it has popped up huge, right? And it's uh it almost ties in with the public land and uh uh private land, right? Who gets to use it and who doesn't? Is motion decoys mainly when it comes to the motion decoys? It's the battery-powered spinning wings. Um do you guys think that they uh and my my question for this topic is have they hurt hunting? Have they added benefit to hunting? And when I mean have they hurt hunting, have they hurt what well we you know, have they hurt the duck population, or do we think they they hurt in the way ducks work now? And should they be regulated and your your thoughts of only public uh only being regulated on public land versus being regulated on private land? Um you know, I'm gonna let I'm gonna let old uh Gus go first on this one because he's from you know the but a lot of people know we're from the home of the the Roboduck.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

Oh yeah. Um, you know, I it's a toughie because I like to think that they are beneficial. You know, I do think they have benefits, and I do believe they still have somewhat of an effectiveness. Um, I just don't think it's as effective as it once was back in the 90s when they first came out with those first robos that you know we all know and love. Um I know for California, they we have regulations where we cannot use battery-powered decoys till December 1st, which I never quite understood, honestly, because I always felt like if you're going to regulate it, either let us have free range from open to the end, or just don't let us use them at all. Um, you know, that's kind of how I felt with them. I as in in terms of it's helped or hurt, it's really hard to say because I I it's hard to say, honestly. I like to think that it's helped, but it's also hurt in the sense that, you know, it definitely educates our birds a lot quicker. You know, they figure it out, you know, a lot more quick than normal. But I also view it as, okay, if they're getting used to a battery-powered spinner, okay, I'm just not gonna run it. And I might, you know, switch it up and try something different, you know, because as hunters, you know, we should, you know, if something's not working, you know, we usually improvise or adapt. Otherwise, we're just doing the same thing over and over again, trying to achieve the same outcome.

SPEAKER_08 52:46

And for um, just the viewers' sake, that that um I'm gonna we all call it the spinning wing season. Is it spinning wings? Are they equal on private and public? Can you use them on both, or is it the season just for just to turn them on public and not in private, your your open game form?

SPEAKER_01 53:04

Uh December 1st, it's across the board, private and public. We cannot, when I was down there, we were not using battery powered up until December 1st. We could use uh wind powered decoys, battery-powered water motion decoys, but we could not use our mojos or anything until December 1st.

SPEAKER_08 53:24

Yeah. Domingo, what what's your your thought on? Because I know they do get used a lot in like the dry field scene out in the in the central flyway.

SPEAKER_02 53:33

Yeah. Um that yeah, that would be the one place where you know you'd probably feel a little bit of a loss. Um, I don't do a ton of duck dry duck hunting, just you know, as an opportunistic, like we don't we don't get it a ton right around me. Um when I'm guiding, we there's more dry field opportunities. Uh, but you know, I I'm always in the boat of rules for everybody. If you got an outlaw for public, you got outlawed for private. Um, but have they hurt? I I don't know. I seems like people are saying, you know, they just don't work, so they're not using them as much. I love the invention of the remote. I just use it just like a flag. If they outlawed the mojo, I'm by I'm figuring out a way to make a duck flag or make one because they just they help out a lot, you know, in certain areas, just grabbing a duck's attention, you know. I I use it for that more than anything. Finishing ducks, most of the time I just turn it off, you know, just use that little bit of motion. That way the ducks kind of know where we're at. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 54:38

Um, I don't I know you um have you hunted, you know, I know you hunt in Arkansas um a little bit, but have you hunted public in Arkansas at all? Uh just one time a couple days. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I had this big discussion with Pete guys from Arkansas because you know and then you know, my discussion point on it was if they're saying it wasn't good on, you know, the public land birds and the private birds are the same birds. And what I've never understood with Ding Leo, because I know it was real big in Arkansas, and they usually bring up you know that um that discussion a lot. And it trickles down here into Louisiana. That is there's it should be it should once again should be no different, right? If an out of stator can get regulated on public land, he should get regulated on the private land. If you know you know the private land guys can't have it, I don't think the public guys can have it. And they're you know, they're oh, but it it hurts the population of birds and the public. They're still killing the same way with the hose with that apparatus in privacy.

SPEAKER_02 55:46

So yeah, I I think some of that though on the private versus public and Arkansas for the spinners comes from some of the old timers, though, that you know they're the same guys that are in the boat of if you use a turkey decoy when you're turkey hunting, you're not turkey hunting. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever you say.

SPEAKER_08 56:07

Roland, what's your thought about the spinning general?

SPEAKER_03 56:12

I have a love-hate relationship with them spinning. When I'm killing them over them, I love them. When I'm not killing, I hate them. But um, I've learned over the years that if I'm gonna run them, I'm gonna run 10 or more. One or two just don't work anymore. You have to run a bunch. I mean, open field. Um the more visibility I have and the longer distance, like I said, I'm not a big fan. Uh some days I love them, some days I hate 'em. Um, I was around back in '95 when they came for the first time I ever seen one. So I I've seen what they did when they actually before they were introduced and it was phenomenal. Now, 2000, you know, everybody wants to talk about data. There was some studies done on in it on it in Louisiana in 2004, and um it was like a two to four ratio from having one to not having one. Now, in today's world they've they've seen them all from Canada to the Gulf Coast. And they're still a tool. Like Domingo said, most of us are run on remote. So but a lot of times I'll turn them on on the corners. And I mean few of 'em, whether it be a blue wing or a green wing. You know, you can let 'em spin, but a lot of your big ducks, your dad balls, your pentails, the mouth, you know, they've seen it. But you have to turn it on on the corners when they turn away from you, you gotta kinda use it as a tool. And that's kind of what I do with with mine, you know. I mean, I hunt from day one to the end. And like I said, I have a love-hate relationship with them. Some days I wanna shoot them, and then some days I love 'em. But it just depends how you catch me that morning. But they do still have uh a lot of pulling power, but I find the more you run, the better the pulling power is. I mean, look, when you pass on my pins, it's nothing but flat. Oh, it's all you see.

SPEAKER_08 58:19

Yeah. Do you think if they completely like you're I've I've heard people talk about it, they want them completely outlawed, banned. What's your opinion on that? Especially from being hunting in the 80s.

SPEAKER_03 58:30

A lot of times when them ducks come, they'll bump. They'll get so close and then they'll bump and spread. It's like they're so used to seeing that flag that they'll just, you know, flare for no reason. You know, whether it be on or not, or you don't have now or you you don't have them. But um I just find that over the years that the ducks respond different to flash than what they've done in the past. Meaning that they they bump for for just no reason. You know, they're just so used to seeing that flash that they get accustomed. Hey man, look, I'm gonna get shot um if I go there. And you can tell when it's a juvenile because they'll come straight in. And sunshine versus cloudiness, cloudy days has a lot to do with it too, you know. I find the pulling power is better on a sunshine day than on a cloudy day.

SPEAKER_08 59:30

Uh but from from someone who's hunted, you know, you know, in the 80s pre previous um, you know, them being introduced. If they banded them, do you think that if you know the outlaws, you know, spinning wings, um do you think that'd have a positive or negative effect? It doesn't even matter.

SPEAKER_03 59:53

At this point, I really don't know if it would matter, you know. I mean, I'd love to to see the ducks finish like they used to, but I just think, you know, all them ducks are gone. You know, I mean, uh, you want them every duck to finish real nice, but they don't they'll get so close to the spread and they'll just bump because they're so used to seeing some type of flash in it that they know that they're gonna be shot.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:20

Yeah. Dave, what's your thought about uh up there in the in the main and on the on the spinning wings? Spinning wings seem like they they get the most of the hate, right, when it comes to motion.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:33

I mean, if you if you went by any river, any small body water, and you're really looking, you can see people running spinners all the time. But in my opinion, spinners are very situational, depending on where you hunt. If you're hunting off of a river and you have a little mud, um, a little puddle over on one side and it's got a uh a stream that goes into the tree coverage on a windy day, I'll stuff the spinner in that that little brook to draw ducks across to us. But I don't I don't see it has a negative effect on anything unless it's situational.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:16

And kind of for the group for all the group, but you know, when it comes to the motion decoys, why do we think that it almost seems like if you had the pulsators or shakers, no one ever really get really cares about those, you know, that they're no one ever you never hear people say, oh, those are negative or even positive. Or why why do we think it's the spinning like it's such a such a bad rap?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:44

I'd say, you know, when you look at a spinning wing to, you know, like a pulsator, for example, you know, pulsator, you're gonna create natural ripples on the water, it's gonna look like a duck's diving, you know. And if you look at how birds, at least, you know, are in the real or in you know, a refuge setting or you know, relaxed, you know, they're moving, swimming, they're happy. Yes, there is some flash there. Um, I like to think that the spinning wing is kind of one of those that it once it caught popularity, especially in the West Coast and California, particularly, uh, because Oregon and Washington do not allow battery-powered decoys. Um, I think it kind of caught more of just, you know, you could go out there with a blade or a mojo or two or whatever, and that's all you needed, and birds would work. Um, and I think you know, those birds caught on real quick and they lost again. I think they lost that effectiveness. I do think you can still kill them. You can, um, but it's just not as if you want to be consistent, that pulsator, that rippler motion decoy is gonna be your best bet. In fact, my last, I won't say last three, four seasons at my club and even on public, um, my buddy and I, we you know, we put between the two of us, we ran five spinners and we didn't run them once. We I think we had 18, 18 or 20 between the two of us. Yeah. We had uh pulsators, that's all we ran were pulsators on public and on our private stuff. And I'd say between both public and private, we saw a night and day change in how birds were responding, you know, and we and we tested it on days that were cloudy, days that were sunny, days that were 70 degrees, days that were colder, and it just seemed across the board they were a lot more content with the water motion than they were with spinning wing.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:05

Yeah. I he brought the blade. Um, you know, I'm uh I know Roland, you've seen them, and uh I'm I'm sure Domingo's seen them. Um, you know, California, we used to have the big, you know, the big blades. Uh we we used to call them like the goalpost, um the goalpost decoys. It was kind of like a big old huge blade. I think Mojo started uh making them again.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:26

Yeah, they revamped them. I I've seen them. I'm not a huge fan. I actually it's funny you say that. Uh, we still have the two originals. I want to say they're from like '99, I think, or something around there. I'll I'll just send you some pictures. They still work, yeah. They definitely need some love.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:47

So the next two topics that I want to talk about are kind of real big, you know, or are bigger controversial ones. And they kind of started this next one, kind of started, you know, and me and um Roland's uh neck of the woods and kind of spilt out. And we we're gonna talk, you know conservation groups. Um you know, and there's two big conservation groups that are that get real, like just get bashed all the time. And it's you know, there's almost starting to be like a negative trend in certain areas of supporting ducks unlimited or delta waterfowl. Um, you know, kind of, you know, conspiracy theories, I'll say, because nothing's ever been proven with neither of them. I grew up huge in the DU world in um Northern California out of the um of Susan Marsh. They had a huge chapter out there in Sassoon, and then I was a big supporter of uh the California Waterfowl Association, which is a a tremendous. um conservation organization out there on the west coast but have you guys noticed anything around your regions or do you guys personally have like a you know a not discontent like a positive or negative of what you all think about some of these conservation groups that are going on roll and I'm gonna let you kick this one off well you know I've been a a big supporter of of of DU for many years um you know a sponsor as you want to call it you know I mean um we give a lot of money to to DU and Delta but yeah I mean lots of controversy over over uh duck limited and delta but the one question you ask these guys that say this who has done more for duck than these two organizations there's none no one has done more for ducks than ducks limited and Delta waterfowl so how could you know they have negative impacts yes I'm sure that the money that is raised does not go where it's supposed to go whatever I mean that's not the point.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:13

You know us as hunters how can we get back other than join a chapter be a member you know help out do things then that's a limit to the Delta. I mean there's there's no other way for the common folk to do more but to sit here and bash the organization that and again we all don't agree I don't agree on some of the things but they're the only two organizations that to this day does for them.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:48

Daming you want to go next on this one yeah I I don't know I've supported uh there's not really Delta Waterfowl around here but I've you know supported local chapters with like you know donating calls and stuff um buddies from some of them so I try to help out uh yeah like like like Roland said there's probably not all the money goes where you'd want it to but I mean at least they're doing something I mean until someone else wants to jump in and start their own organization and help out I mean I don't have too much terribly bad things to say about them.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:26

Yeah uh Gus, what what what's your thought about some of these conservation groups and and the negatives you know some of the negative shade they've they've gotten is it deserving or or do you think it's just um the wave of low ducks or you know people just being upset I think it's people being upset like uh Roland and Domingo I I'm gonna they kind of hit a few good points on the head that I'll just bring up you know we have to give back somehow and you know I think they're probably the two that have been the leading in conservation. I mean you know you see what du and Delta have been doing in the West Coast especially with our wildfire season you know they're out here trying to save some of these areas that we want to say you know help with you know the fall and spring migrations um I know California waterfowl has been a huge impact they've done more on the California side which again coming from that state they do a fantastic job but I'd say overall Pacific Flyway Delta and DU have done a phenomenal job. Like Domingo said you know some you know the money may not go to everything that we think of but I like to think on the positive note that you know they're out there fighting to conserve more habitat enhance habitat and even go as far as trying to enhance some of our public land areas so we're able to have better quality hunting in the future.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:01

And Dave Dave I I feel like Dave you're you're you're you're just in your little waterfowl like haven bubble or you're like man I don't have any of these problems up here in Maine. What's your thought about and do you see in your area any negative I mean I know you see you know you see it online and all that the negativity towards you know any conservation group but especially those two I mean I can't say there's any negative to you figure you have we have chapters in Maine New Hampshire Vermont Mass Connecticut but du is such a large has such large coverage okay we're in Maine we're donating money to Doctor Limited it's not just Maine that's gonna get this money it's everything so I'd rather see it go to someplace that needs it and then do our little chapter group and you want to do like the um I call nesting tubes they'll do like a day of that and you go make nesting tubes so be it you're helping your area try to repopulate birds so I I can't I can't see um a negativity towards any of them yeah yeah I mean the big negativity that you know the me you know me like some of me rolling here about all the time is you know they only help the these big you know these big clubs and you know and you know they're only helping the the rich man but I mean I I don't remember so much in California uh outside of like the Grizzly Island area but I know here in Louisiana I mean you go to Catahula the money they poured in Catahula the money they poured in the you know little and Grand Schneer um you know you see some of the you know a lot of these projects you know that they do and it's like for me personally it's like sometimes I feel bad for those dudes and I I was talking to one of the regional guys here in Louisiana and I you know and we're talking about he was asking why I think you know because down here you where you see the most hatred for them I was like sometimes I think I feel that when the duck hunting or and this goes with anything in jobs or you know anything in life sports when things aren't going good we have to blame somebody and sometimes we blame the guys on the top or you know somebody has to take the blame and I've I for me I feel like sometimes it's right now they are taking they're taking the blame because you know not everyone's waterfowl season is the exact way that they want it. And then and Rowland's used um analogy numerous times you know some guys just don't see past the shotgun bead you know they don't they don't they you know they judge everything the whole they judge the whole duck hunting off of what you know off of what they see off the gun barrel and then not you know not the grand scheme of stuff um you know for me our duck numbers you know when you go off the long-term average yes duck numbers are down I think 4% from 1955 um I've talked to Rolling them I don't think those numbers in 1955 are that correct I think it might have been you know miskeared not on purpose you know just because of technology and the way we're you know the way we way we do things now but yeah I think sometimes they just get the shade because so we we as hunters or just any one thing society sometimes we need someone to blame and they're unfortunately you know they can't they're catching a lot of strays so we're coming to the last topic of you know of what we you know what we're seeing across waterfowl and it's the migration and you know this is a huge topic right coming from you know duck numbers weather habitat loss some people blame it on you know some uh not seeing these migrations because of lack of water or um some of the you know natural droughts we're having or too much water in some areas and the big elf in the room is the flooded corn you know flooded flooded corn and I even like to talk about the dry corn the ethanol corn you know can we pinpoint it to one one thing or multiple things uh I kind of want to uh ask the group or you know is it right for us to go after do you guys think it is you know because a lot of people think and they a lot of shade that these conservation groups get is because of the flooded corn you know no one's pushing to ban it. Do you think it is the flooded corn? Do you think it is the weather do you think it's the lack of water habitat loss in certain areas um I'm gonna tell you guys I think that I call the you know the migration issue or our our decline in ducks I like to say it's a um it's a dice you know it's you know it's not a two-sided coin the problems I think it's a it's a dice with multiple problems and multiple fixes uh but I kind of want your guys' opinion being from across each flyaway and uh I'm gonna let Dave kick this one off.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:40

Perfect. Let me flip back to my notes here that I did last night. Um what I've noticed is and where I am is is has to do a lot of weather this past winter we had more snow in the southern part of Maine than we did in the northern part of Maine. We haven't had extreme cold to push them further south none of the lower states below us seem to be getting that that coal factor to push them even further south they're piling up in two or three states below us and not really moving if they get that little hull um I'm gonna I'll give an example we had to go up to my wife's parents' camp and they're hour and a half away we went up on one of the coldest days we had and there was negative 13 not including the wind chill factor and within a mile and a half we saw a thousand ducks in open water so that would be my biggest gripe is weather but you can't really fix weather but we we seem to have pretty good water because we're around the coast we have all these brackish tidal water areas that at work I'll see them out there nested up paired up ducklings and everything but we just haven't really had that push that cold weather push if you know what I mean yeah if you're um we we we also the the argument what's your thought about the flooded corn or you know e even just flooded ag in general do you think it is you know the man the whole shortstopping is it is shortstopping happening and is it flooded agriculture that's doing this flood stopping you know where would you see across even just your region specific i i can't say it's really flooded agree honestly because we we had we do a lot of um drainage ditches to keep that water off of our fields so it's not like we have a cornfield that has three feet of water in it we try to shed that water as fast as we can to get it away from the crop but on the flip side of that if when you're listening to Instagram and Facebook and you have these opinions from politicians saying that oh you dig a hole and you plant corn in it and you flood it that's a good possibility of shortstopping birds I'm that's crazy.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:37

You can't that that one hole is not going to shortstop a whole mess of birds going south yeah it's a unique scene that from different regions got um different flowerways yeah I you don't really hear the flood of corn or the flood of ag arguing so much in the in the uh Atlantic flowway and you know I hunted I was you know fortunate to hunt Atlantic flowway for uh four or five years when I lived over in North Carolina um you know I know a lot of guys you know kind of like you know they kind of get bashed on you know the the though that'd be like the worst flow but I enjoyed my time hunting there um I thought it was it was different uh when I see success was different there um because because what was it four well actually no longer now five years ago or six years ago Nebraska had the heaviest rain they had and all of their cornfields flooded I mean that that puts a damper on it they got all that food and they the farmers can't get on it um cut it down yeah yeah but I I think you have guys who kind of say like that was that was a natural thing but rolling I would love to hear your your your your thought about the migration and is shortstopping a thing what shortstop is weather shortstopping them is the is lack of water forcing them to shortstop or is it what you think the flooded corn well I mean it's multiple things man it's not just one uh one uh thing you know I mean warmer winter um you know again everybody wants to talk about you know shark stopping but I think our habitat in Louisiana to sustain ducks are not what it used to be.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:33

You know yes we still have lots of great habitat in the state of Louisiana. Not all of it's sustainable to a duck but we do have lots of good habitat you know I mean our rice vapor just is right about what it used to be um you know but most of the rice in Louisiana is cut and uh distribution of ducks are is different today. Um you know ducks don't come all the way this far south. Do we still get ducks where I'm from yeah why I don't stay here and hunt them every day because I got better places to hunt. You know I mean I enjoy hunting around my home but um I just enjoy traveling and and and shooting ducks and all that but uh coastly roads is real people say it's not I live in the Foosh Paris if you look on the map I'm about 55 miles from the Gulf of Mexico I live at the top of Paris and they say in 50 years the Gulf is going to be one of my houses at so it's it's it's a real thing. That all has a lot to do with what you know just habitat for duck you know and um if you travel to Louisiana and you come on 165 from on the border of Arkansas into Louisiana at one time there was water everywhere up there. It's all dirt you know I mean there's nothing up there for a duck to really stay up there. You know speckle belly's up there because they like to soy beans and and play in the dirt. But ducks don't like that. And the people that enhance their property for ducks you know the duck hunt is still pretty good in Louisiana. Uh weather has a lot to do with it. Um this year we had that last front in January um we had lots of ducks I mean uh malls and pentail were dry feeding and that don't happen much in the Louisiana. Yeah I watched the first first one um we hunted them there now major to the ducks we shot in there was healed but we wasn't being pitched and um we had mallard again I've been hunting on this on this club here for what five years now and this is the most mallet that I've harnessed since I've been there. Now the guys that have been there before said you know the mallet duck hunting was better than this. So is it weather? Yes you got short stop yeah because I mean we see it all year long. I mean it it's January and there's still ducks in in North Missouri and Nebraska so I mean it it happens but is there enough flooded ag or flooded cone whatever it is up there to hold every duck that comes out which we know that's not true because which we no, which we duck. Yeah you know there's the data says that you know Louisiana's winning less matter which on paper it says yes a lot of people don't see them the distribution like they want to be same thing with the dead wall but when you look especially the dead wall there's no other state that just jumped up and shot more dead walls the last couple years so I just think it's multiple issues on to why Louisiana doesn't get ducked one guy.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:21

Yeah and I've noticed for it's like like we don't have it too much in my area of Louisiana. We have a little bit around some of the the bigger lakes around the Mahmoon area and up Bill Platte but no one really talks to or no one likes to talk about some of these evasive plants that are kind of destroying some habitat that we have besides the coastal erosion.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:41

That's right so you know a lot of y'all familiar with you know that first duck commander was filmed in Marpa Swamp, which Marpa Swamp got that invasive plant called Salvania and giant salvania which killed that swamp I mean same thing happened to my the the swamp that I hunted I mean it came in and but within years it's not there. So if you look at throughout the Chapel Iron Basin, Salvania's everywhere from northwest all the southeast and just saltwater just don't seem to want to grow in saltwater.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:19

Saltwater kills everything but if you have a freshwater environment you have salvania down here and it's to a point where it'll cover the water and it looks like land and that had a lot to do with on the degradation of my ducks hunting in Marpa swamp and surrounding area because they didn't have that area to get away from the hunger yeah Domingo being you know being the central flyway do you see you know when I mean I know you have to see it online you see all you know everything you know blaming the migration from flooded corn from weather and lack of water too much water uh from even predators which I mean I do agree with the predator situation but you know do you think you know what do you think the reason is and do you you know do you are are you thinking that um these ducks can shortstop and has flooded ag you know degradated your you know your um your area uh definitely not my area I mean I've obviously seen a lot and I I've listened a lot I gave it a lot of thought um so our area there's not really much flooded corn there's some so Kansas it'd take you I don't know probably about eight or nine hours to drive across Kansas so it's a pretty wide state um but there's a little bit on the south south southeast side and there's like one place that I know about kind of central western Kansas that does flooded corn.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:01

But other than that there's really not flooded corn in Kansas uh I do know of so like like I said before this year with it being so mild it seemed like the weathering pattern that I seen um when I was down in Arkansas for Worlds there's a good cold front that came through everybody at Worlds was complaining all the callers they're like man I should be duck hunting because it was just like perfect weather and then it seemed like all of December was warm. It was just super mild throughout December and then through the first part of January too and then finally uh towards the end of January you know middle end of January we got a good cold front and I know people are everybody was hammering bird it seemed like from you know Missouri all the way down through probably Louisiana. I didn't you know Louisiana doesn't get really much love when it comes to duck hunting as far as like social media presence but you know guys in Arkansas I was scrolling through TikTok lives and you know people are Shooting ducks in Arkansas on their TikTok lives and stuff. Um, so I think weather has a big part to do with it. Um the shortstopping did the corn shortstop the ducks, possibly on a year like this where it's super mild, the ducks don't have to migrate, but those guys are just gonna start planting or not planting, they're gonna manage it for moist soil if they can't do corn. So the ducks aren't gonna leave either way. Um I I honestly I think maybe part of a bigger issue is that you know, you hear the Dakotas are planting a lot more corn. So, you know, if they have access to food, where you know, those those fields that they plant corn now, they used to be probably canola and other stuff like that. So the ducks couldn't feed on that. So now they're dry feeding on corn longer, probably in the Dakotas, so they're not migrating as early as they used to. Um, why they're putting part in that too. If they get snow, that corn, those cornfields get covered up, and then we'll get those ducks. Uh but I, you know, one of my good buddies, he, you know, he's in Illinois, and you know, they they had probably the best season they've had in I don't know, five, eight years. And I I think a big part of it was the weather. It got cold early, not super early. I think they're sitting open spot time, same time Arkansas does somewhere in like you know, late November. And the ducks got there and they didn't leave because it's you know it was warm. They didn't really have to leave until it got really cold.

SPEAKER_08 1:29:31

Yeah, yeah. I like how you bring you you bring up the um the harvested corn, just the corn, the dry cornfields in general. Um I think to me when when people talk about corn short shopping or corn, I'm like I find it funny how everyone, you know, is real anti-corn once we put water on it. But when you you know, the time I've hunted in Nebraska, which I hunted uh sheetwater cut corn on a river, butt up against a river. Or I've seen some of my real good buddies who died in Nebraska, you know, they hunt cut corn, dry corn. You know, that's usually butts up against cattle tanks or uh a river system, and you you know, you do have some of those uh warm water river systems that it just doesn't it doesn't freeze or it takes a lot for it to freeze. I can go on YouTube and anywhere else, and I know social media and stuff can kind of be I call it duck porn, and it's not always really realistic, but you see so many guys I'm talking about just tear up the ducks and dry corn and it's like there's so much more waste grain corn on our landscape that we like to give uh credit to. And you know, I'm not saying farmers have to make money, we you know, ethanol's a thing, and I don't think it's you know, I don't think it's going away anytime soon. But it's like that you know, no one ever takes that into effect of what could you know that's billions of you know kernels on the ground for ducks to eat. And I uh I think sometimes people just really don't take that in effect.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:20

Yeah, yeah. And I I mean, you know, you hear the waste grain a lot, and it's like, I don't know, have you seen the the you know the harvest rates of some of these new machines? Yeah, you know, we had a they're just what I it's been a while now, probably seven or eight years ago. Uh we had a field that we you know, some specs were getting into a couple days before the opener, and they all left because there was no grain. So, I mean, we still hunted the field because someone else got to the other field that they ended up going to, but they there wasn't enough waste grain to you know to hold them there. So I mean, is that the real issue too? I don't know. You know, it's probably a little bit of everything, but yeah, and some of the farmers still, you know, probably using a combine from 1992. So those fields are probably ripe.

SPEAKER_08 1:32:05

Perfect, yeah. Um, Gus, you hunted the central flyway in some of these areas and the Mississippi Flyway in some of these areas, and the corn debate's starting to get into our home areas, right? And a little bit a lot south of it where we're at. Um, what's your thought about the the migration over there? Uh is it been, you know, shooting six, you know, uh what do you call it? Seven mallers and you know, ours, you know, 10 or uh used to be 10 pentails back in the 80s, but our our 10 um specs. 10 specs. Um has the migration been degraded on the uh Pacific flyway? And what is it? And is this corn and shortstop and debate is even prevalent in the Pacific Flyway? And I say this because you are seeing some guys further south from where I mean you grew up at, starting to you know jump on that bandwagon.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:11

Mm-hmm. So to start off, you were saying about this Mississippi and the central. So yeah, uh a few years ago, I want to say like four or five years ago, uh, took my mom on a guided hunt. It was uh her Christmas present. Uh that I think that was like my first or second season, saved a bunch of money, took her to Habitat Flats. Um, and I'd been wanting to take her there for a while because I knew it was like arguably one of the best outfits in the United States, and I wanted her to get some of the best experience of hunting. And so when we went out there, it was like I think their second or third week of their season, and we had just timed it right. We were just getting a good cold front that week, and all three days we hunted three different styles of hunting. So, like one day it was like uh we had flooded corn. I think the next day was like more like hardwood bottoms, and then the third day was a little like pothole, like in the middle of some flooded corn. And we did good all three days. Um, but I can tell you, like, I could tell a difference from day one to day three, you know how the birds changed when we had wind and some cold weather move in, they were active and moving. The last day we had sunshine and no wind. We all know with sunshine and no wind, they're not gonna be as active, they're gonna be sitting and getting warm. Um, coming to the Pacific flyway now. Um, this last year was a bit of an eye-opener. And like I was telling you earlier, I didn't hunt much this year. Uh I got out maybe 10 times, but I went out around middle December. And if you know anything in the northwest here, middle of December, usually Seattle is dealing with wet rain, cold weather. And if you go east of the Cascades, usually they're in the 10 teens, 20s, possibly 30s, maybe some snow on the ground. Um, but really, really, really cold, right? Uh, it was almost 70 degrees. And I went out with my buddy, and we were out shooting ducks and some honkers, and these birds, I've hunted some stale ducks in California. I think these were probably some of the most stale ducks I'd ever seen in my life. I mean, when we're talking call shy, decoy shy, I mean, they got up, left, didn't even want to come back. They knew them, they would not show up till 30 minutes after shooting light, you know, and that's just nature of the beast, you know. Um, we were successful, you know, uh, but we had to put our time in and make adjustments and you know, really, you know, we're going through our bag of tricks to really poa a few of them in. And, you know, I remember specifically, it was nearing the end of the season. My mom and I were having this discussion, and we, and this is exactly we know who we're talking about in California. We we had heard that someone, you know, some people down in California were making comments about how the flooded corn debate has been um shortstopping their birds. Well, we experienced arguably probably one of the most mild seasons we'd ever we'd ever seen in Washington. It never got below, I think, 60 or 50. Um, and where my family lives, we get uh about a foot of snow, and it's usually there for about a month. Uh, we never got snow. So um, you know, when I say that, you know, this whole area, these birds, they had no reason to leave. You know, it was 60, 70 degrees on the east side majority of the season. Um, so this whole flooded corn debate, um, you know, like Roland and Domingo, we've all kind of said it, you know, it there's more than one, there's more than one thing happening here, right? I think there's a couple things that can be true, and then there's a couple things that are going at the same time, you know. Um when you have mild temperatures, when you are just, you know, when you got the birds that aren't really leaving Canada, and you know, you don't really get those consistent cold fronts, they're not, you know, and even the snow, they're not gonna leave, they're gonna sit. And you know, uh, you know, down in the you know, Sacramento Valley, you know, there's a reason why the Sacramento Valley is known in California as like the Mecca for waterfowl hunting and not the San Joaquin. You know, um, the San Joaquin, yes, it does have a lot of good fields and a lot of good uh grain out there and some corn for ducks and geese. But if you look at the Sacramento Valley, I mean, we probably arguably are, you know, there's a reason why birds are there. It's you have the largest, one of the largest flooded rice producers out there. And then if you look at all the duck clubs, majority of them, you know, they're all moist soil, you know, wetland, moist soil, flooded timber, you know, there are a handful that do have flooded corn, but those are usually more in the butte sink. Um, overall, it's majority moist soil and flooded woods, and you know, um, there's a reason why they winter so many birds, you know. So this whole debate of well, this flooded corn is shortstopping our birds down by the San Joaquin, I think is blasphemy because you know, all through this flyway, you know, you got Klamath Falls, you have the Soviet Islands in Oregon, you have you know eastern Washington, and you got you know the Tri-Cities, you got Othello, Moses Lake, you got all these different areas, even you know, parts here on the western. Yeah, even Grizzly and Cali, you know, you got so many of these different areas that have such diverse habitats for these birds to go to that you know, if if you don't have the weather, guess what, you're not gonna see the birds. I mean, I can say most of us know we know somebody or someone who guided in Canada, and guess what? They were they were very successful pretty much their entire time guiding this year.

SPEAKER_08 1:40:12

Yeah, yeah, I've seen that. It was I was kind of I thought it was quite comical. The area that I seen this whole California debate when it came to flooded corn. Um it was definitely an area that I'm like, well, you know, when you have one of the largest freshwater and brackish marshes, you know, north of you, um, that's gonna you know, and you have all these refugees in north of you, uh, there you know, they they were actually complaining about corn in their area. And I was like, probably the only reason you have corn on that, or you have birds in that area is because of that refuge with corn on. And I believe that's one of the refugees I thought, no hunt refuge that they have on there in that area.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:02

I lost that it was, yeah, it was no hunt refuge.

SPEAKER_08 1:41:06

I'm like, well, when you have no pressure on food, literally the only reason why you have birds there is probably because of that corn. Um, yeah. If you didn't have that, you I mean, yeah, you just that area of California. I've never I haven't hunted anything south of the San Joaquin. Um, but it was kind of like I found I did find it comical. Uh, I know you know the the guys that say it out there, I didn't know, I don't know him personally. You know, my duck hunting in California, I you know, it's kind of all you guys up in the north that have um like Tim that you know, me and Tim have been in some of the same duck clubs. You know my uh our duck clubs were kind of you know almost adjacent to each other. And um Bronson, uh I don't really know what Bron, but he hunts more more up in like the um he's north of me.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:57

Yeah, he's north, he's more towards Willows. He's on the he's on the east side. Um he's on the east side, northeast side of the refuge of uh sack. Um I know he has a few spots there, and then I know he hunts, he hunts a lot in like around where he is in uh Petaluma, Napa. Yeah, um, because there's that um I think it's a river that runs through there. So he kind of and then there's a couple of like bay refuges that he's gonna be.

SPEAKER_08 1:42:24

Yeah, the Sarafel refuge. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:27

Yeah, yeah, he's on that area. No, it's it's very comical because uh, you know, I I when I saw that I was like, yeah, there, you know, that you got some of the biggest refuges in the North State. You have Klamath Falls, which in my opinion has if anyone were to have corn, it's gonna be Klamath. Um and you kind of hit a big one. I think pressure is not really talked about a whole lot because you know, with pressure, if you you know, if you're pressuring your properties right, or if you're pressuring your public stuff right, you're gonna hold your birds, you know, and uh, and if you're trying to really, you know, on a season where it's tough and you may only get out a handful of times and or you only have these certain spots you can get to because of whatever you got going on, you know, it's like you don't want to burn your you don't want to burn your spots down, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:43:23

Yeah, I can play. I I said um I was I was I was at the one even growing up in like I don't in in the now we did have a lot of dry corn in the in around um vacuville area in Browns Valley, but that's where we killed all our pheasants at. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:41

But yeah, so can I jump in real quick on the so I I do a lot of elk hunting and I pay attention to like you know, just everything. So, and I got guys uh a buddy that uh duck hunts in Idaho. So the no snow, Idaho, Montana. I'm sure it extended into the Dakotas. Like there this year, there was just absolutely no snow from you know Montana all the way down through Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming. There was no snow anywhere this year. So I mean, I for those mountain states might be a tough fire year. Um, but for this duck season, if there was no snow in, you know, Montana, there's probably no snow in the Dakotas. North of the border, there probably wasn't much. So I those this year, especially on a bad year like this, when we just had a super mild winter, and it probably was tough for a lot of folks, duck hunting. You're gonna they're gonna be the loudest on the worst years. And this is probably one of the most mild winters that you know, especially for snowfall that you know, we may have ever seen.

SPEAKER_08 1:44:46

Yeah. Yeah, and uh like when when people start talking about temperatures, I'd say, you know, like I tell people it's more than your temperature. It can be cold outside, but if it ain't covering the food or freezing the water, the ducks are gonna be, you know, they're gonna be there. Yeah, especially if they can find a warm water system or a big open lake where they can sit on and roost and loaf. And if you're in the you know, in the winter wheat or the cut corn or any of that, if there's nothing to cover that, not just freeze it, but cover it, those birds are gonna, they're gonna eat and they're gonna go right back into open water and they're gonna sit and try to burn the least amount of calories, you know, for survival purposes.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:34

So, Joe, I gotta tell you this. So, one of my good buddies, he um he hunts just to he just hunts to the east. I mean, he has some flooded rice, right? And so this year he was he called me early mid-December and was like, hey, I'm not seeing any birds, but he heard from somebody else that, you know, up uh in the northeastern part, up, you know, in California near the Oregon border, he was saying that, like, oh, they're still killing birds up there. And I asked him, I said, okay. I said, Did you see what the temps are like up there? He said, No, I said, Well, let's look. And sure enough, I Googled him, it was 30, 40 degrees for the high. I mean, probably I think at one point it was like pushing almost 50 with like 30s at night. And I told him, I said, you know, just because it may look cold at night, it's not really freezing that water, it's maybe throwing a little thin sheet of ice that you're breaking, but you're not, it's not icing over for those birds to push out.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:41

They're just yeah, and it it just changes the bird's feeding pattern too. So, like when it gets even a little bit colder than that, I mean, even the highs, the highs for like the 30s, 35, those birds they'll sit longer in the morning and wait for a warmer part of the day, and then once it does start to get warmer, then they'll push out to feed, knowing that when they come back, the water that they've kept open all night is still gonna be open.

SPEAKER_08 1:47:04

Yeah, it's wild, gentlemen, but we're giving them about a 90-minute time mark. Hey gentlemen, I am so glad. Thank you for coming on. Thank you all for representing you guys' um flyways. Um, like always, hey, I thank the viewers. I thank you guys. We couldn't do this without you, and like our good friend Chris will say, let Valor not failure.